In what sense is the Bible alive?

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gtrenewed said:
The bible is a collection of God’s revealed word to mankind. God’s word is revealed to be alive. God’s word exists eternally. God’s word is God. God’s word is Jesus. God’s word is outside of time. The physical bible created in time contains God’s word which is eternal and alive. As soon as you receive this word you receive God. Since everything was in God’s mind eternally and always and outside of time the bible always existed and was revealed in time as a physical object. God says that His thoughts are above our thoughts and His ways are above our ways.

The word is God. The physical is not the whole.

Humans are not the authors they are the instruments. While it reflects personality, divine inspiration does not allow for error, the expressed word is perfect. Otherwise, the ot prophecies could not have been so expertly woven together with multple levels of meaning over differing centuries.
The word of God is not another person it is God who exists as three persons in one. It is all a mystery we accept by faith.
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I think there is some potentially dangerous mixing of Jesus with the Bible (and possibly the Eucharist) here.
 
Cat_Herder said:
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I think there is some potentially dangerous mixing of Jesus with the Bible (and possibly the Eucharist) here.
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How do you separate a mystery? It would be like separating the Trinity.

There are physical elements which contain Spirit. Just because His words are written physically does not remove the Spirit and truth. The physical book is not God but His words are contained within with a life that God has given them.

It would be off thread to talk about eucharist here. Not baiting me into that trap again.
 
When the letter to the Hebrews says, “the word of God is alive and active”, it is not obviously refering to the Bible. It is quite probably referring to the Gospel preached by the Church, or to Jesus Christ Himself, both of which are alive. I wouldn’t know what would be meant by someone who says that “the Bible is alive.”
 
gtrenewed said:
How do you separate a mystery? It would be like separating the Trinity.
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So is the Bible then part of the Trinity? Which is the real Word of God, Jesus or the Bible?
There are physical elements which contain Spirit.
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Only the human body does. Animals have material souls, not spiritual ones; and material objects such as the Bible do not have souls.
Just because His words are written physically does not remove the Spirit and truth. The physical book is not God but His words are contained within with a life that God has given them.
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I’m not following you here, so I’ll just ask: Which words contain the spirit and truth?
 
Cat_Herder said:
Split from this thread.

I think there is some potentially dangerous mixing of Jesus with the Bible (and possibly the Eucharist) here.
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You’re going to have to explain why this is “dangerous”.

The Bible is from God who is one in the same but the father of Jesus. So, I don’t see how you can get around “Mixing” Jesus and the Bible.

Nobody seems to be saying that the Bible is above Jesus or anything like that so I’m completely lost as to what you mean.
 
germangreek said:
When the letter to the Hebrews says, “the word of God is alive and active”, it is not obviously refering to the Bible. It is quite probably referring to the Gospel preached by the Church, or to Jesus Christ Himself, both of which are alive. I wouldn’t know what would be meant by someone who says that “the Bible is alive.”
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I think this verse in Hebrews is actually referring to the fact that the “word” (the teachings of Jesus) were passed on via preaching, not written word. In that way it was “alive” because no two preachers would preach the same thing exactly the same way.

Once the Bible was compiled the bible could still be considered alive via the interpretation of it by the Catholic Church and the Church’s teachings.
 
mcrow said:
You’re going to have to explain why this is “dangerous”.

The Bible is from God who is one in the same but the father of Jesus. So, I don’t see how you can get around “Mixing” Jesus and the Bible.
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The original issue here is whether John 1 referred to Jesus or to the Bible. You might want to flip back to the thread from whence this one came.

Why does it matter? If John 1 refers to the Bible then the Bible is God. :eek:
 
Cat_Herder said:
The original issue here is whether John 1 referred to Jesus or to the Bible. You might want to flip back to the thread from whence this one came.

Why does it matter? If John 1 refers to the Bible then the Bible is God. :eek:
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Well, if that’s all it’s about, then it’s easy to settle.
John 1 14:

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.”

It is clearly referring to Jesus.
 
Cat Herder, you keep trying to say that I believe the bible is God for some reason that is beyond me. If you read my posts I clearly make the distinction. The bible contains (or is) the word of God and the word of God is alive but this does not mean that the bible is a being, however the word of God is Jesus. Since you seem to not understand what I mean by the mystical gift of the word of God and we keep going in circles, I’ll move on.
 
gtrenewed said:
Cat Herder, you keep trying to say that I believe the bible is God for some reason that is beyond me. If you read my posts I clearly make the distinction. The bible contains (or is) the word of God and the word of God is alive but this does not mean that the bible is a being, however the word of God is Jesus. Since you seem to not understand what I mean by the mystical gift of the word of God and we keep going in circles, I’ll move on.
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Well, you and I are scratching the iceberg on a very deep topic, and we aren’t getting anywhere unless we start digging. So grab a shovel…

Let’s start with the assertion that “the Bible always existed.” I see from your clarifications that you are not asserting that the actual book existed eternally. I am guessing that you mean that God had the words in mind before time began. However, He used humans to actually write the Scriptures and these humans were far from robots; they definitely had a hand in choosing the words (in 1 Cor 1 Paul forgets who he baptized; that can’t be God talking).

So, how can a book with such human finish exist before humans?
 
Possibly, inasmuch as it is a derivative of God.
The Bible in a Verse

But now once at the conclusion of the ages Jesus has
appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Hebrews 9: 26b
 
Cat_Herder said:
Well, you and I are scratching the iceberg on a very deep topic, and we aren’t getting anywhere unless we start digging. So grab a shovel…

Let’s start with the assertion that “the Bible always existed.” I see from your clarifications that you are not asserting that the actual book existed eternally. I am guessing that you mean that God had the words in mind before time began. However, He used humans to actually write the Scriptures and these humans were far from robots; they definitely had a hand in choosing the words (in 1 Cor 1 Paul forgets who he baptized; that can’t be God talking).

So, how can a book with such human finish exist before humans?
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Paul saying he forgot, not that God forgot.

OT scripture is so finely and accurately written on many levels over many centuries concerning the prophecies of Jesus that even though humans put pen to paper, God inspired, meaning He provided the substance of the words.

OT scholars believe that words have a life of their own and that God provided that life.

God knows the beginning from the end from outside of time, always existing.
 
Cat_Herder said:
So it is Paul who is speaking.

Or you could say the Holy Spirit is speaking through Paul, but Paul is filtering the words.
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Only where it is in harmony with the over all purpose of God. It is God’s word to accomplish what He desires so this was included as written for God’s purpose not Pauls.

Under inspiration you are not allowed to deviate from God’s purpose.
 
Cat_Herder said:
So humans have no free will?
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The free will is exercised in accepting the ministry of the prophet. Under inspiration a prophet receives the word of God and relays it, verbatim if necessary and with poetic license if allowed.
 
gtrenewed said:
The free will is exercised in accepting the ministry of the prophet.
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Did Mary have the ability to refuse to be the Theotokos?
Under inspiration a prophet receives the word of God and relays it, verbatim if necessary and with poetic license if allowed
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Since poetic license is allowed and was actually used, and so is part of the Bible, how could the Bible exist before the poet?
 
Cat_Herder said:
Did Mary have the ability to refuse to be the Theotokos?

Since poetic license is allowed and was actually used, and so is part of the Bible, how could the Bible exist before the poet?
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Of course.

God knows the beginning and the end and He has always existed.
 
Cat_Herder said:
How can God know what the prophet is going to say if the prophet is free to say something else entirely?
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A christian should understand that God knows your entire life beginning to end.

If this is the best question you can come up now, your shovel needs sharpening.

I’ve made my case whether you accept it or not.
 
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