In What Way Is APA Psychiatry a New Age Religion?

[firebrand]

They have a homosexual organization, are the greatest form of radical indoctrination in the US, monopolize industry (medicine, advertising, education), instruct immorality in everything they do, are rationalistic, secularist, a sort of “secret brotherhood” like masonry, they are responsible for a huge number of abortion referrals every year, who says they “help” people, rather they practice a false religion, or anti-religion.

 

[ralphinal]

I started a chemistry major and ended up in psychology. I see where you are coming from, but I think that you have a causal issue that is being ignored. When I was in chemistry, there were a good number of people who were agnostic or atheist, but by and large, many could have cared less about any faith at all, even if they claimed to have one. Psychology was full of people who were every kind of faith system, including a large group of new age types. Also, the hard science people tended to be more conservative in ideology while psychology folks were more liberal. This causes the people in the upper levels to be more liberal. At one time, homosexuality was classified as a disorder, although I don’t remember if it was a personality or mental one.

I know of several psychologists who are Christ-focused in their practice. It does not interefere at all with what they do. In fact, the results tend to be better when a faith system is involvoed.

 

[firebrand]

That sounds very mushy and multicultural as if all belief systems were alike. Most psychiatrists are atheists. The Pope, in a World Day of the Sick message 2005 related that most mental illnesses are NOT biological but are ideological and that the use of medicines should be cut way back. He said the problem was separation from God. I say that psychology is more than a system to treat disorders but a belief system, mostly agnostic/atheistic/secularist. Identifying this as a causal thing is fine as to say that one who has been in it doesn’t know it for what it is. Could you say that you don’t believe that atheism, say, causes social disorders and that psychologists don’t teach this as a body of doctrine?

 

[mschrank]

For atheists there are two options.

Option 1, “blind indifference”- think of the Knight’s squire in “The Seventh Seal”. Joke about the meaningless of life to keep the scowls away, mock those that hope in something more. Make a lot of hissing noises.

Option 2, dull yourself with pleasure. The problem is this can’t last all of the time. Most atheists I know are primarily option 1 with a bit of option 2 on the weekends… ok, without the hissing noises (unless you’re a pro-abortion activist).

If that were me, I’d need a headshrinker too. Just like the kid in Rebel Without a Cause.

 

[DDClark]

That sounds very mushy and multicultural as if all belief systems were alike. Most psychiatrists are atheists.

Is this your opinion, or do you have statistics to back this up?

The Pope, in a World Day of the Sick message 2005 related that most mental illnesses are NOT biological but are ideological and that the use of medicines should be cut way back. He said the problem was separation from God.

**I find this comment very sad. Is the pope a medical doctor? How many saints have suffered from and expressed depression in their writings?

Certainly, there is a spiritual aspect that needs to be addressed when treating mental illness, but this type of comment is similar to certain non-Catholic Christians who believe that you are mentally ill because you don’t have enough faith or have not prayed enough.
**
I say that psychology is more than a system to treat disorders but a belief system, mostly agnostic/atheistic/secularist. Identifying this as a causal thing is fine as to say that one who has been in it doesn’t know it for what it is.
**
I don’t really understand the last part of your comment** …

Could you say that you don’t believe that atheism, say, causes social disorders and that psychologists don’t teach this as a body of doctrine?

Again, where do you get your information?

 

[firebrand]

DDClark: That most psychiatrists are atheists is obvious from most of the reading I’ve done for about 40 years, and I do a lot of reading, then, I have some personal experience with people like this, then, it just appeared that way in an article on a Vatican news bulletin here in the States. They have statistics; but I don’t think you’d be interested in statistics because it sounds like you have your own bag. This is my bag.

I’ve studied a lot about atheism because I was one, a lot of church stuff, and it is very frequently discussed whether atheistic ideology is linked to social disorder; traditional Catholic sources say it definitely is and that is one reason I gave it up. So there.

 

[Exalt]

They have a homosexual organization, are the greatest form of radical indoctrination in the US, monopolize industry (medicine, advertising, education), instruct immorality in everything they do, are rationalistic, secularist, a sort of “secret brotherhood” like masonry, they are responsible for a huge number of abortion referrals every year, who says they “help” people, rather they practice a false religion, or anti-religion.

But unlike Religion, they are open to new evidence and frequently change thier stance on a given issue. Unlike Religion, which demands faith inspite of evidence to the contrary, the psychology field invites constructive criticism and is willing to revise generally-held ideas.

 

[ralphinal]

I would say that any belief system, even a lack of one, if misused can cause social ills. THere is too much history to say otherwise. Atheism creates its own problems, as does secular humanism. My point is that there is no ideology in the APA that is not formed by its members. I was never told not to think a certain way, nor was I taught to think according to the book, so to speak. People bring their own ideology in with them when they become psychologists or psychiatrists.

I do agree that medications are overused in America, but that is across the board. When dealing with a psychiatric problem, say depression, the evidence shows that counciling coupled with medication is the most effective. Many family doctors perscribe the drugs without addressing the causes of the issues. Now, I do not agree that most of it is a lack of faith. Some are truly biological and some are idiological, but there are a lot of devout Christians with issues. A LOT.

Please post a link to the speach from the Pope from the World Day of the SIck. I might have looked at the wrong year, but I saw nothing about mental health meds in 2005.

 

[firebrand]

Can’t post your link. I think it was VIS (Vatican Information Service). It was the year before the big meeting of the disabled in Korea, the first year he was elected. Look around, as usual, his teaching was simple and direct about ideology. Don’t downplay faith as an element in mental health. A man can get up and walk around with God supporting him, even if the psychiatrist can’t see God. It is Christ who heals in every case.

 

[ralphinal]

Can’t post your link. I think it was VIS (Vatican Information Service). It was the year before the big meeting of the disabled in Korea, the first year he was elected. Look around, as usual, his teaching was simple and direct about ideology. Don’t downplay faith as an element in mental health. A man can get up and walk around with God supporting him, even if the psychiatrist can’t see God. It is Christ who heals in every case.

I for one do not downplay the role of faith. I am asking you not to downplay the role of biology either. For some people, mental illness IS the cross that they are to bare.

I’ll keep looking. What I saw on 2005 was about AIDS in Africa, with a little talk about redeptive suffering.

 

[DDClark]

DDClark: That most psychiatrists are atheists is obvious from most of the reading I’ve done for about 40 years, and I do a lot of reading, then, I have some personal experience with people like this, then, it just appeared that way in an article on a Vatican news bulletin here in the States. They have statistics; but I don’t think you’d be interested in statistics because it sounds like you have your own bag. This is my bag.

I’ve studied a lot about atheism because I was one, a lot of church stuff, and it is very frequently discussed whether atheistic ideology is linked to social disorder; traditional Catholic sources say it definitely is and that is one reason I gave it up. So there.

I actually am interested in statistics. That’s why I asked for them.

Please also post a link to the Pope’s speech.

When you say “you have your own bag”, I assume you mean I have my own agenda? I suppose we all do, to a certain extent, based on our own spiritual beliefs, experiences, knowledge, education, etc.

I’ve worked with people with mental illness (everything from schizophrenia to personality disorders to major depression). I also have a degree in psychology and social work. I don’t sit behind a desk and consult the DSM or my old textbooks when I am working in a group home or in a community setting, because theory is very different than reality.

I just think that broad generalizations in mental health are wrong (including handing out psychiatric medications without good reason and proper supports).

ddc

 

[firebrand]

I’m not going to apologize for saying the Pope made this statement. It was the year he was elected. I lost the link for my own records. But it’s pretty well accepted, too, the pharmaceuticals are very overbearing. Right now, today, the Pope made another statement about not linking identity of the individual to technology. Are you guys following this stuff? People in psychiatric care are not straw men, unlike what everyone says! In Switzerland they just legalized assisted suicide for severe mental cases, including bipolar. Bioethics International on the web has this story. Please! They have argued for centuries whether a man has a soul. Psychiatrists have been involved in some of the worst eugenics and secular humanism of the last century. At least believe that the Pope was interested in lessening the discrimination, if not lifting the burden of the body from mental suffering.

 

[firebrand]

You think too slow. You go on the defense instead of the offense on the side of an issue of justice. Time, time, time, whether you sit and argue whether the body or the soul is ascendant. Then you quibble. People are going to be euthanized, soul, body and drugs and kidneys and experiments and all. A man could go mad just listening to you.

 

[mschrank]

But unlike Religion, they are open to new evidence and frequently change thier stance on a given issue. Unlike Religion, which demands faith inspite of evidence to the contrary, the psychology field invites constructive criticism and is willing to revise generally-held ideas.

HA HA HAH HAHA HAHHHA HAHHAHA HA HAH

Ahaha ha ha… ha… really.

LOL.

That was the second funniest thing I have read all day, next to the thing about eating the rabbit.

BTW, what is this generic “Religion” that I keep hearing referred to? Is it a person? Does it have a website?

 

[Elric]

That sounds very mushy and multicultural as if all belief systems were alike. Most psychiatrists are atheists. The Pope, in a World Day of the Sick message 2005 related that most mental illnesses are NOT biological but are ideological and that the use of medicines should be cut way back. He said the problem was separation from God.

That sounds similar to what some scientologists would say. No disrespect intended, but the comparison worries me.

I think that there is an issue with over-medicating or mis-medicating, but this is a bit excessive.

I say that psychology is more than a system to treat disorders but a belief system, mostly agnostic/atheistic/secularist.

Then I would suggest that you take another look at it.

Identifying this as a causal thing is fine as to say that one who has been in it doesn’t know it for what it is. Could you say that you don’t believe that atheism, say, causes social disorders and that psychologists don’t teach this as a body of doctrine?

I am not really sure what you mean here.

 

[firebrand]

Erlic
There was nothing connected to scientology in my remark. Please explicate.
I’ve taken a long look at it. How old are you?
As to your last, I never answer leading questions.
Are you a student or have you spent time with materialistic psychology in a secular university?

 

[Exalt]

HA HA HAH HAHA HAHHHA HAHHAHA HA HAH

Ahaha ha ha… ha… really.

LOL.

That was the second funniest thing I have read all day, next to the thing about eating the rabbit.

BTW, what is this generic “Religion” that I keep hearing referred to? Is it a person? Does it have a website?

Go look around this forum. Go look at people “struggling” with various dogmatic “issues” - looking at pretty plain oddities in scripture as well as just day to day life that contradict Catholic teaching.

Like, oh, I don’t know, this *thread *that talks about how this one guy doesn’t understand why *he *was so lucky to be in God’s grace to be born into a Catholic upbringing but so others aren’t lucky enough to have the Fullness of Truth because they were born and raised to believe different things. Now, if we were really scientific about it, like, say the APA or another evidence-based scientific-method-based association, we’d look at the facts objectively. But oh no, not this guy. He doesn’t even see that there’s a contradiction there bewteen a God who supposedly loves everyone and a God who lets some people be Catholic and others sit in the dark.

Now take a situation about the APA. Someone finds a contradiction in the APA’s understanding about, oh, I don’t know… Let’s say Bipolar disorder. They say that many of thier clients have responded well to a treatment that isn’t very popular. Well, the psychological community would *demand evidence *in the form of experimental studies, complete with a number of measures to decrease confounding variables. If enough evidence supports a second look at this treatment, then the opinion will be changed. And they’ll acknowledge that it’s been changed. And they’ll fully admit that they once had a negative opinion about that type of treatment, and now they have a positive opinon, and they’ll give the reasons why.

And even the core issues about the APA can change. If therapy itself is oneday proven ineffective, then they’ll stop it and find a better treatment plan. Even if mainstream anti-depressant drugs are found to be dangerous, they’ll stop thier distribution.

But the Church? Oh no, the Church never changes, right? It’s core doctrines and dogmas are central and will never change. They’re the absolute truth and though other “theories” might develop, they’re just BS. *We *have the one truth. *We *are infallible in matters of faith and morals. *We *are the representative of God’s will on earth.

There is a very clear difference between an organization like the APA and the Church. But I wouldn’t really be surprised if you couldn’t see it.

 

[goofyjim]

APA Psychiatry is not a new age religion. It is a developing field of science as much as any other field of science is constantly developing. I’ve never seen a psychiatrist who set themselves up as God or demanded everyone go against Church teaching.

 

[Elric]

Erlic
There was nothing connected to scientology in my remark. Please explicate.

It is similar because of the playing down of the biological part, while playing up the negative medication part while aserting that there are other reasons and other “treatments” for the condition.

Although scientology does go the step further by labeling psycology/psychiatry as a pseudo science and claiming that mental illness doesnt exist.

I’ve taken a long look at it. How old are you?

What has my age got to do with anything?

As to your last, I never answer leading questions.

I was just asking you to clarify what you meant, because I couldnt make sense of it. It wasnt a leading question, I just didnt understand what you meant.

Are you a student or have you spent time with materialistic psychology in a secular university?

I would have to say no to that, but I have to ask what my university experience and what I studied has to do with anything?

It has been about 4-5 years since I went to university (as a mature aged student) and I studied a different field.

Now if you ask me for my experiences outside of university, you might get a different answer.