In which literal way should women submit to their spouse?

[Elena321]

I find this a bit “distasteful”.

Im not a feminist by any means but a European background female who is feminine and comes from traditional family where men and females are seen as different and i agree with that but i think “submitting” goes too far.

Most guys around here dont want a girlfriend/wife to “submit” and would probably laugh at the idea.
The only guys that i would think would want this a re guys who have ïssues".

How would submit even work on a practical level?
Like can anyone name some situations?

To me,if both partners are committed to treating each other with respect and want harmony-wouldnt it be unnessecary for "submission"to even come into the picture?

I know that the bible also says for husbands in turn to love their wives like Jesus loves the Church so im not really seeking a discussion about how it its fair for both sexes etc but more examples of how “submission”" actually works on a day to day level and what situations would even need it etc.

Thanks

 

[MaryT777]

I always appreciate those who are willing to tackle this topic from a literal and practical point of view…looking forward to reading the answers. Subscribed.

 

[Wesrock]

The Church expects each couple to be different and find their own formula. My wife have very much an equal partnership. There is no one size fits all formula. As a man, I think that’s all I’ll add here for now.

 

[pensmama87]

One thing I have heard is that if a couple genuinely cannot agree on an important issue, then the husband, in the interest of the family, makes the final decision.

Many husbands add that it’s never come to that in their own marriages.

IMO, it’s much less about the wife does or doesn’t do and more about husbands taking on leading their family, which means serving, honoring, and protecting them - not being a dictator. Our responsibility as wives is to let them do that, and to work together.

 

[Neal76]

Wife wants a new kitchen. Husband thinks that the kitchen they have still works, and the changes made to the kitchen are not worth the money. I think that both must work to make sure they understand the other’s point of view, but ultimately, the wife should submit to her husband’s decision.

A marriage is two people. Only one can be in charge. St Paul said it’s the husband’s role.

 

[MT1926]

I know you don’t want to discuss the Bible verses in question but I need you to know how I understand them before I can give you examples.

Ephesians 5:22
22 Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord.
Ephesians
24 As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.
As Neal already pointed out:

A marriage is two people. Only one can be in charge. St Paul said it’s the husband’s role.

Ephesians 5:25
25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,

Now to me this is the heart of the passage. You stated:

so im not really seeking a discussion about how it its fair for both sexes

I wish we could discuss this because from my point of view I would point out how it is not fair to the husbands. When St. Paul says “Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,” He set the bar so high it is impossible for us husbands to even come close to reaching it. He basically put the ball in our court. Not only are we now in charge of the family we also have to be willing to give up everything for our wives. Sure St. Paul says my wife has to submit to me but what he is really saying is every time I make a decision that has some sort of effect on the family I have to weigh every option and make the decision that is best for everyone, even if it means self sacrifice.
In essence I have to be the husband that is willing to give up everything for my family to the point that my wife knows that is the man she married. It won’t happen the day you say “I DO” but when it does, as it has in my marriage, the wife will never give a second thought to submitting to the husband because she already knows he has weighed every single option and has put her and the children before himself in making his decision.

Examples are hard but here we go.

Finances. I am the sole bread winner in the family as well as the keeper of the cash. All financial decisions are on me. Can’t even recall the last time the wife looked at the checking account totals. She has totally submitted to me on this issue. Sure some out there might say she is crazy. But she didn’t submit because I forced her to submit. She submitted because she feels safe in the knowledge she is married to a man that owns his own business and works 65 hours a week to keep it profitable. He isn’t a man that goes out smoking and drinking every evening after work. He is a man that comes home and works on the farm he has provided her and their 5 children. He has kept them safe, healthy and fed. Also, he shows he trust her with their finances. She has a check book and credit cards to buy things we need and feels valued because her husband has never questioned any of her purchases. I in turn feel loved and respected by her submission to my financial decisions by her not over spending and purchasing more wants instead of needs.

There are many more examples in our marriage but about everyone of them would require a long detailed explanation of what I, as a loving husband, do which makes my wife’s decision to submit a no-brainer. I don’t really want to come off as blowing my own horn but in my opinion, if more husbands would understand these verses this way, there would be a lot less divorce. Yep I implied it, as far as I am concerned, as a husband, if a husband and wife get divorced it’s the husbands fault because he was too lazy or self centered to be the husband Christ wants us to be.

Sorry for the rant.

God Bless

 

[Rosebud77]

I know you don’t want to discuss the Bible verses in question but I need you to know how I understand them before I can give you examples.

Ephesians 5:22
22 Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord.
Ephesians
24 As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.
As Neal already pointed out:

Ephesians 5:25
25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,

Now to me this is the heart of the passage. You stated:

I wish we could discuss this because from my point of view I would point out how it is not fair to the husbands. When St. Paul says “Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,” He set the bar so high it is impossible for us husbands to even come close to reaching it. He basically put the ball in our court. Not only are we now in charge of the family we also have to be willing to give up everything for our wives. Sure St. Paul says my wife has to submit to me but what he is really saying is every time I make a decision that has some sort of effect on the family I have to weigh every option and make the decision that is best for everyone, even if it means self sacrifice.
In essence I have to be the husband that is willing to give up everything for my family to the point that my wife knows that is the man she married. It won’t happen the day you say “I DO” but when it does, as it has in my marriage, the wife will never give a second thought to submitting to the husband because she already knows he has weighed every single option and has put her and the children before himself in making his decision.

Examples are hard but here we go.

Finances. I am the sole bread winner in the family as well as the keeper of the cash. All financial decisions are on me. Can’t even recall the last time the wife looked at the checking account totals. She has totally submitted to me on this issue. Sure some out there might say she is crazy. But she didn’t submit because I forced her to submit. She submitted because she feels safe in the knowledge she is married to a man that owns his own business and works 65 hours a week to keep it profitable. He isn’t a man that goes out smoking and drinking every evening after work. He is a man that comes home and works on the farm he has provided her and their 5 children. He has kept them safe, healthy and fed. Also, he shows he trust her with their finances. She has a check book and credit cards to buy things we need and feels valued because her husband has never questioned any of her purchases. I in turn feel loved and respected by her submission to my financial decisions by her not over spending and purchasing more wants instead of needs.

There are many more examples in our marriage but about everyone of them would require a long detailed explanation of what I, as a loving husband, do which makes my wife’s decision to submit a no-brainer. I don’t really want to come off as blowing my own horn but in my opinion, if more husbands would understand these verses this way, there would be a lot less divorce. Yep I implied it, as far as I am concerned, as a husband, if a husband and wife get divorced it’s the husbands fault because he was too lazy or self centered to be the husband Christ wants us to be.

Sorry for the rant.

God Bless

Not a rant my friend. a refreshing and delightful read. Wish there were more couple like this

 

[john_ennis]

I find this a bit “distasteful”.

Im not a feminist by any means but a European background female who is feminine and comes from traditional family where men and females are seen as different and i agree with that but i think “submitting” goes too far.

Most guys around here dont want a girlfriend/wife to “submit” and would probably laugh at the idea.
The only guys that i would think would want this a re guys who have ïssues".

How would submit even work on a practical level?
Like can anyone name some situations?

To me,if both partners are committed to treating each other with respect and want harmony-wouldnt it be unnessecary for "submission"to even come into the picture?

Thanks

She and I just celebrated our 27th anniversary yesterday.
“Submission” has never had to come into the picture.

Just kidding.

We both agree with the Biblical direction in principle (she even more than I). We both struggle with the part that demands unselfishness–she with “submitting” if it comes to that, me with actually being able to accept that I might be wrong and seeing the wisdom of my wife, and God’s nudging elbow, in our disagreements.

Example: Though she’s a serious Lutheran, I insist our son go to a Catholic school. Although my wife’s own church and school are nearby, with the boy’s own aunt as a kindergarten teacher and many friends’ kids enrolled, I keep him in the Catholic school for months, even as he appears to be having an unhappy year in a room and school which give me non-warm non-fuzzy feelings.
Too long it took me to see that God and my wife were talking to me together. But finally I did put him in the right school, and our other kids as well.

And her own brother, a pastor, baptized all our kids in a Lutheran church. You might say I “submitted” to her on this–actually I recognized that God was asking me to be part of a marriage and trust him. I’m sure that if I’d insisted, we could have baptized them in a Catholic Church. But the Church teaches that Christian baptism is Christian baptism, so this was a time to put down my own wishes and die a little.

And years later, every child of ours, baptized in a Protestant Church and taught in Protestant schools, is a confirmed Catholic. They attend Mass and Confession, and they believe–because the Bible they’ve been taught to love agrees with the Church their dad is a part of.

The right submission of the wife is simply permitting her husband to do something difficult: to be “forced” to take on the task of voluntarily giving in when God tells him he should. He will sometimes be selfish and fail at this.

The right headship of the husband is allowing his wife to do something difficult: to *voluntarily *take on the role of being “forced” to give in as though the will of God is present in her husband’s decision. She will sometimes fail at this.

And so they’ll both have to forgive each other, constantly.

 

[Wesrock]

No one has suggested otherwise, but I should add that the Church is also clear that this passage does not mean the wife has to submit to abuse or violations of her conscience or Church teaching.

 

[Mary_Estelle]

A friend just lost her husband. He totally dominated her life, made all decisions and handled all the finances. She submitted to his word. They had a good marriage. Now that he is gone she has no real idea on how to carry on with everyday decisions. I suppose she will learn, but I think it will be a hard turnaround for her after so many years. There is submission and then there is omission of reality and practicality. I don’t know the answer as to how much or how little submission to a spouse makes a marriage viable or complete. Do you? Just wondering. Peace.

 

[Book_Worm]

No two couples are alike. In our marriage, the person who is better informed on the subject makes the decision. My DH is a hard worker and takes good care of his family. However, has only a cursory understanding of financial matters while I spent much of my career working in finance It would be slightly ridiculous for him to try to learn about and understand investing, interest rates, etc., just so that he could make the decisions and I submit to them. OTOH, there are other areas, sometimes one more traditionally deemed as feminine concerns, where he has more knowledge and understanding. We try to utilize the unique gifts God has given each of us to the best of our ability.

 

[Sarcelle]

A friend just lost her husband. He totally dominated her life, made all decisions and handled all the finances. She submitted to his word. They had a good marriage. Now that he is gone she has no real idea on how to carry on with everyday decisions. I suppose she will learn, but I think it will be a hard turnaround for her after so many years. There is submission and then there is omission of reality and practicality. I don’t know the answer as to how much or how little submission to a spouse makes a marriage viable or complete. Do you? Just wondering. Peace.

My grandparents are like this. My grandfather made all the decisions and he was quite older than my grandmother. He was quite the autocrat and quite the dictator. He died much earlier than her and she spent all her remaining years dependent on her children.

My other set of grandparents also observed the husband as head of household model but my other grandfather’s style of leadership was more servant like, more Christlike. He put the well being of his wife and children above his own. Tragically he died fairly young of cancer. My grandmother never recovered from her grief.

 

[PureChaos]

I find this a bit “distasteful”.

Im not a feminist by any means but a European background female who is feminine and comes from traditional family where men and females are seen as different and i agree with that but i think “submitting” goes too far.

Most guys around here dont want a girlfriend/wife to “submit” and would probably laugh at the idea.
The only guys that i would think would want this a re guys who have ïssues".

How would submit even work on a practical level?
Like can anyone name some situations?

To me,if both partners are committed to treating each other with respect and want harmony-wouldnt it be unnessecary for "submission"to even come into the picture?

I know that the bible also says for husbands in turn to love their wives like Jesus loves the Church so im not really seeking a discussion about how it its fair for both sexes etc but more examples of how “submission”" actually works on a day to day level and what situations would even need it etc.

Thanks

A husband rarely has to use his authority in such a way as to demand something for the wife(and children) to submit to, submission is “to give over or yield to the power or authority of another” and is not a lowly place, after all, we are all submissive to God, and He gives authority to who He sees fit, (not to say that many who are in authority are fit to be there), but when a husband does need to use his authority this way, it should only ever be with the well being of his family in mind, and never for any selfish motive,
for example, the family is suffering financially and their every day needs are not being met, the husband has a job offering in another state, he has the opportunity to provide food, clothes, and other necessities for his family if they move, but the wife does not want to go, however, the husband knows this is best for everyone, and can insist on it.
there are other instances that a husband can rightly ask for submission, less serious ones than that even, but in any case, it’s always with the family in mind, and not to be used for selfish whims.
the wife is actually known as “helpmate”, and all the responsibilities of the house and family fall on the husband, so if he needs to delegate certain tasks to others, being that they are on him, he does have that right, although i know in most households it seems to be a given that the wife is responsible for all that, but it is really only her who is helping the husband.
of course the Church also recommends that the wife has her certain duties and the husband has his, such as preparing meals and arranging the house and managing the money, etc. for the wife, and for the husband, His main duty is first of course providing for the spiritual and physical well being of his family, but also, as i said before, all responsibilities fall on him, so what needs done he should do, or designate who does it…these are just example of course, either spouse ought to do what they have the skills to do, it’s ok not to do something(such as managing the money) if you’re not good at it,

husband and wife may have their different roles to play in marriage, but they are equal in dignity and respect, and even though, as we all know, there are many men who take their role as the head of the house in a totalitarian manner, which in my opinion, gives a bad name for the proper God given role of head of the family, because really, husbands are only being obedient to God by taking that role, and for right thinking men, it can be a difficult and intimidating task, and often times confusing, but that is also why the wife is called the helpmate, because she is also there to help her husband in the making of decisions, the Church also recommends that.

all one really needs in order to see what a proper and structured family life looks like, is to look at the Holy Family, St. Joseph was head of that house too, even though His son was God and Himself had greater authority. but God made husband head of the family, and if He Himself would not disregard that, how much more us?
i know there is no question here to whether or not the husband ought to be obeyed, but just seeing how God even submitted to His foster fathers authority, should give us an idea of the importance of that God given role, and likewise humble us, because if God Himself could be submissive, who are we to put that down? authority and submissiveness, when practiced with virtue and love, is a holy and sacred thing, and both roles, when carried out properly, will help you greatly with growing spiritually and gaining heaven,
as long as a husband is loving and have his families best interest at heart, and provided he is competent, then is such a man difficult to submit to?
i think the only reason authority and submissiveness has a bad name, is because of how much it’s misused and abused, but in its proper place, it is nothing to be ashamed of or make us feel lowly.

i think that there is nothing wrong with a husband and wife who make decisions together, but i also think there is nothing wrong with a husband, who on occasion, has to make a decision on his own, and husband and wife can be happy in both circumstances, provided they love each other, and more importantly, love God.
we must simply be humble, and remember our nothingness, and that God gives authority, and can easily take it away, we do not deserve anything He gives us, He only gives to us out of love, if we feel we deserve anything more than what God has given us, we should recall what we truly deserve because of our sins…

dunno if this in any way answers any questions but i hope it helps somehow…i hope…

 

[Elena321]

A friend just lost her husband. He totally dominated her life, made all decisions and handled all the finances. She submitted to his word. They had a good marriage. Now that he is gone she has no real idea on how to carry on with everyday decisions. I suppose she will learn, but I think it will be a hard turnaround for her after so many years. There is submission and then there is omission of reality and practicality. I don’t know the answer as to how much or how little submission to a spouse makes a marriage viable or complete. Do you? Just wondering. Peace.

In my view,submission should never be lessening of your personality,dumbing your self down,substituting your judgment for someone elses(your spouse),submission for submissions sake,or where it creates a parent child relationship (or co dependant one) instead of healthy adult marriage.

It seems to me like your friends relationship involved a bad/“false” submission (for lack of words sorry) that actually crippled her abilities and caused a dependancy on her husband.
I think if someone has issues of control or dominance or the alternative-passivity-then they need to work on/rid themselves of these traits before any level of “submission” would be healthy in their marriage.

In my view,submission should solve a purpose (the fixing of contentious issues or decisions) and not be “done” just for the sake of “submissions sake” and definitely not to feed the spouses ego or control issues.

 

[Katherine438]

We started off our marriage with me (the wife) making all the decisions, and pretty much ruling the roost. We weren’t getting along very well.

I then became ill and wound up relying on my husband for a lot of things … he also began to make a lot of decisions … we started getting along so much better and our marriage has thrived. I have been ill for 30 years … and I have given over the decision making to my husband … the best years of our marriage.