In your opinion, what is the difference between justice and revenge?

[Irish_Cabbie]

You cannot ask the Italian government to pardon a mentally disturbed man any more than you can ask them pardon a migraine. The person is healed when they are healed.

You most certainly can ask the Italian government to pardon a prisoner. Saint Pope John Paul II did precisely that.

A pardon is a legal act that has legal repercussions. A prisoner that is serving a life sentence and who is pardoned is released from prison. The prison doors are literally opened for that prisoner and he is free to leave. Moreover, the pardoned prisoner is free to leave regardless of whether he has been healed or not. The person that attempted to kill Saint Pope John Paul II is now free and living in Turkey precisely because the Italian government, at the urging of the Saint Pope John Paul II, pardoned that criminal for his crimes.

 

[paziego]

Have you ever visited someone in prison, Paziego? I can assure you that the prisoners in those prisons are not restrained by constructed concepts; they are restrained by steel bars, concrete walls, razor wire and gun towers – all of which are constructed, and all of which are quite real.

I am talking about secular laws themselves, in the sense that they are a social construct.

Nonsense. When Saint Dismas, “the good thief,” hung on the cross next to Our Lord, he asked Jesus to have mercy on him. Jesus responded by forgiving Dismas of his sin. Our Lord even went on to tell Dismas that he would be in Paradise that very evening. Our Lord did not, however, stop the punishment that the civil authorities had imposed upon Dismas. Our Blessed Lord did not stop Dismas’ execution.

Obviously - He wasn’t in a position to do so. But He did stop a stoning when He had the chance.

When we forgive someone of their sin, we are asking God not to hold this person’s sin against him. When we pray for those that hurt us, we are praying that the person that hurt us will someday reach Heaven. There is nothing wrong, inconsistent, conditional or vengeful in, say, a rape victim forgiving and praying for the person that raped her, while at the same time urging the parole board not to release her attacker from prison.

It depends. If you believe prison is corrective for those inside, rather than merely a deterrent for those outside, then yes, you can ask the board not to release them from prison. But only if you see it as something reparative, rather than punitive, or for safety reasons if the rapist is likely to reoffend. Otherwise we are just wishing suffering on the person for no positive purpose.

 

[Irish_Cabbie]

Obviously - He wasn’t in a position to do so. But He did stop a stoning when He had the chance.

Jesus Christ was powerless to stop the execution of Saint Dismas?

 

[paziego]

Yes and no.

No, in that God is not lacking in any power.

Yes, in the sense that circumstances dictated that He should act a certain way. He could, I am sure, have done many different things at that moment, but He took a particular course of action because of the way in which He had to accomplish what he did. He could have also turned stones to bread while fasting in the desert, and the fact He didn’t do so does not detract from God’s power.

Crucifixion is a good example of how law can be unjust. It is torture, and torture is never justified - especially as an execution method. Why, then, should we accept the punishments dished out by the law when we have already forgiven someone - law and justice are separable. Whatever measures are taken by the state, they must conform to our morals and be ratified by reason. If not we have a right, maybe duty, to complain.

 

[Ender]

If we are so comfortable with the idea that vengeance is bad, how do we process the knowledge that God himself engages in it? (“Vengeance is mine says the lord, I will repay.”) I think the problem is that we think of vengeance in terms of personal revenge and forget that it is an obligation of the state.

“Vengeance is the infliction of a penal evil on one who has sinned.” (Aquinas) This is the key point: vengeance is forbidden to the individual but it is the obligation of the state. It is in fact an obligation of justice, which is why God employs it.

The individual must forgive, the state must punish. These are not contrary obligations.

Ender

 

[didymus]

The term “justice” comes from ius, law.

So justice is done through the legal process using legal means. Revenge is undertAken by private citizens, who have no right to punish.

ICXC NIKA

Someone who knowingly does something wrong deserves to be punished. By punishing the wrongdoer we are recognising him as a responsible moral agent. That’s why we don’t punish children or the insane.
As for Justice, in the legal sense there is a retributive aspect to it. If a thief makes restitution he still must pay for his crime by being sent to prison (though for a lesser sentence than one who hasn’t).

Prisons used to be called penitentiaries, i.e. places where inmates would repent of their crimes. They are now called “correctional facilities” and absolutely no correction is going on there, they seem almost perversely designed to ensure that prisoners will come out worse than they went in.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I think we can all agree that if someone does something bad, he or she should receive punishment.

Now, in your opinion, what (if anything) is the difference between Justice and Revenge?

Both can be viewed as the same on a general confused level because in general there are no personal emotions involved “generally”. Personally its a different story. People carry out what they believe to be justice often on a personal level and revenge may be a fact. Think of the King of Jordan most recent with the prince who was burned alive in a cage. He was enraged and wanted instant gratification of revenge, and obtained it. I sympathize with him. Though justice served wasn’t wrong. Justice is serving the greater good, and usually reluctantly because this could mean doing something that is against the conscious and the moral thinking of the general good who determines justice, and personal also. Justice correctly served is a duty not a violent emotional conquest, though often thats the case on personal levels and usually how war unfolds. People always fight for what they think they need. And it usually involves pride.

My two-cents, and off the top of my head.

 

[vz71]

Justice is God serving.
Revenge is self-serving.

 

[Brendan]

If they ARE synonymous, can we ask the mods to rename this sub-forum to “Social Revenge”