Inappropriate music. What do you consider it to be?

[Alex246]

…many classical compositions have murder, violence, hatred, greed, immorality or other evils as their themes and should accordingly be judged by same criterion…However, the point at issue is whether one can single out rock music as having specifically sexual connotations. Now the evidence provided by the musicians and their performances says that we most certainly can…to a greater or lesser degree it all evinces a blatantly sexual orientation and would validate the assertion that rock is nothing more than musical sex.

The question which the Christian devotees of rock music must answer is, what moral impact do objectionable lyrics, obscene gestures and deviant sexual claims have upon those who are striving to cleanse themselves “from every defilement of the body and spirit, and make holiness perfect in the fear of God” (II Cor. 7: 1)? Moreover, how will listening to such morally offensive filth help a Christian to cultivate those good and noble qualities mentioned by St. Paul?: “whatever is true, whatever is honourable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise,* think about these things*.” (Phillip. 4: 8, emphases mine). Even a blind man on a galloping horse could see that this does not sit comfortably with the morally depraved world of rock. There is clearly a definite connection between sex and rock music and only the deaf, uncaring or wholly distracted could fail to notice this. No Christian who is earnestly pursuing holiness would wish to risk being tainted or corrupted by this** most debasing of music genres.**

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait
emphasis added

I must say, Portrait, I admire your ability to unfailingly show charity to those you debate against. It far surpasses mine. I’m afraid I lost my cool a little bit earlier.

First, I’d like to ask if you listen to any types of music other than classical.

Second, have you listened to any rock bands other than the ones you mentioned? I find this particular “filth connection” argument far more spotty than arguments about the beat, noise, etc. No disrespect intended, but your comments make me question whether or not you have actually listened to any rock music. Not all bands are blatantly sexual, and it is completely unfair to condemn them for the failings of others. For example, the band 3 Doors Down is one of my favorite bands, if not my favorite. I have listened to, literally, all of their songs. In none of them do I find a single immoral sexual reference. Sometimes they do reference sex, but only in the way a Christian would. One of their songs, “Down Poison,” is about how a man, presumably, had sex with someone he was not married to, and all of the regret is coming on. Regardless of if my interpretation is the real one, premarital sex is definitely not glorified. All of their songs completely mesh with Christian morals. In fact, they all came from strongly Christian families, and in their newest album, two of them gave thanks to God in the dedications printed inside the CD case. Next example: Daughtry. Their songs, again, all mesh with Christian morals. A few, such as “September,” which I strongly sugget you listen to ( youtube.com/watch?v=vLgYjNTJq5E ) carry some real weight to them. I would NOT say that “you’d have to be deaf not to hear sexual references” in their songs. Now, I completely agree with pretty much all of the bands you listed, but even they have some acceptable songs. There isn’t much meaning to be found in “Thunderstruck,” but it’s not a sexual song either. I actually take some offense at your arguments. I am definitely not “deaf, uncaring, or wholly distracted,” and neither are all rock musicians. Please don’t just condemn entire genres without listening to every single song by every single band in that genre.

Also, your arguments about classical music don’t make much sense. You seem to be saying “rock music has sexual connotations and classical doesn’t even though it has loads of other unsavory connotations, but none of these matter because classical has always been accepted, and it’s still not as bad as deviant sexuality.” From what I know, this does not seem to be God’s view. A sin is a sin, and we should avoid it. Will you give up music altogether? That seems to be the only logical decision in a world where all of your arguments are true, since every genre has sinful connections somewhere. Yet you don’t seem to care about this.

 

[Alex246]

Amendment to my last post: disregard th example of Thunderstruck. Again, I agree with you on pretty much all of the bands you mentioned.

 

[Joe_5859]

Shouldn’t we all take this approach? The church is the pinnacle heirarchy when it comes to truth, therefore, wouldn’t any thinking not aligned with the church’s be false?
And, out of a more opinionated stance, shouldn’t we listen to those who we know we can trust (not to say that others are not as qualified)?

I hate to come back attacking to such a warm response. Please excuse me and take no offense.

No offense taken. I was attempting to inject a little humor into the thread. Sometimes I fail at that. Of course anyone should take what the Church says as being of more weight that us CAF posters. If you look at my other posts, you’ll note that I do not believe rock music is inherently evil. I’m the one who posted the link to the Jimmy Akin article in the first place.

Of course, I would point out that L’Osservatore Romano is not the official spokesman of the Catholic Church. It’s sort of a quasi-official Vatican newspaper. It is not run by the Curia. (You can read all about the history of the paper here on the Vatican website.) Thus, simply because something appears in L’Osservatore Romano does not make it an official position of the Church. The mainstream media frequently errs in this regard. It’s similar to what happens with the movie reviews on the USCCB website (which are written by two lay staff members who work for the USCCB). And yet the media will report it as though any given movie review is the collective and unanimous consensus of all the U.S. bishops.

Nonetheless, I agree that it is good to have sources you can trust. Jimmy Akin is not infallible, of course, but he is quite an accomplished Catholic apologist. If you want to trust his advice moreso than anyone on here (including my own), you would probably be safe to do so. But, of course, we all put our trust in the teaching office of the Church first and foremost. And so far, they have not given us any unequivocal condemnation of any particular musical genre. So we do our best to apply the general moral principles the Church has given us to this specific situation, which, as you can see, leaves room for a variety of viewpoints.

 

[McatholicN]

Alex 246:
Very good points.

The stereotypical rockstar today is the drug-addicted guy going crazy on the guitar screaming illegible obscenities dressed in black. That’s simply because these few individuals stand out. Let’s not get good rock get mixed up with stereotypical rock.

The Beatles were nothing like the stereotype, nor are most rock bands. In fact, despite their songs with innapropriate lyrics, the Beatles had many songs that had very virtuous Christian lessons. I Me Mine, All You Need is Love, Can’t Buy Me Love, Help, the list goes on. Many of the Beatles’ songs promote loving people and staying true (at least almost all of the love songs). Not to mention the most Catholic song in popular music that I’ve come across: Let it Be (Mother Mary comes to me, speaking words of wisdom; Let it be…)

 

[Portrait]

I think that rather than get my information from some unknown people on this site, I think I’ll trust the Church itself and trusted apologist, Jimmy Akin.

Dear McatholicN,

Cordial greetings again my dear friend.

Talking of trusting our Church, have you pondered what Benedict XVI wrote regarding pop and rock music when he was Cardinal Ratzinger? Granted it is not an official ecclesial pronouncement but is, nonetheless, indicative of the spiritual stature of the man who would become the Holy Father a few years later. Here is what he says:

On the one hand there is pop music, which is certainly no longer supported by the people in the ancient sense (populous). It is aimed at the phenomenom of the masses, is industrially produced, and ultimately has to be described as the cult of the banal. Rock, on the other hand, is the expression of the elemental passions. At rock festivals it assumes a cultic character, a form of worship, in fact, in opposition to Christian worship. People are, so to speak, released from themselves by the experience of being part of a crowd and by the emotional shock rhythm, noise and special lighting effects. However, in the ecstasy of having all their defences torn down, the participants sink, as it were, beneath the elemental source of the universe. The music of the Holy Spirit’s sober inebriation seems to have little chance when self has become a prison, the mind is a shackle, and breaking out of both appears as a true promise of redemption that can be tasted at least for a few moments" (The Spirit of the Liturgy, Ignatius Press, 2000, p. 148).

What I think one can safely say, without fear of contradiction, is that the Holy Father does not speak approvingly of pop and rock music; rather his remarks are extremely negative, especially when he contrasts rock music with “the music of the Holy Spirit’s inebriation”. Quite evidently he considers both rock and pop debased forms of music and these are my sentiments entirely and I pray that they will be yours also my dear friend.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[Alex246]

Dear McatholicN,

On the one hand there is pop music, which is certainly no longer supported by the people in the ancient sense (populous). It is aimed at the phenomenom of the masses, is industrially produced, and ultimately has to be described as the cult of the banal. Rock, on the other hand, is the expression of the elemental passions. At rock festivals it assumes a cultic character, a form of worship, in fact, in opposition to Christian worship. People are, so to speak, released from themselves by the experience of being part of a crowd and by the emotional shock rhythm, noise and special lighting effects. However, in the ecstasy of having all their defences torn down, the participants sink, as it were, beneath the elemental source of the universe. The music of the Holy Spirit’s sober inebriation seems to have little chance when self has become a prison, the mind is a shackle, and breaking out of both appears as a true promise of redemption that can be tasted at least for a few moments" (The Spirit of the Liturgy, Ignatius Press, 2000, p. 148).

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Forgive me, but I think this is just another case of misinformation. The Holy Father references rock festivals, and I believe that is the only time this argument holds true. I certainly don’t listen to rock music to free myself from the shackles of my mind or anything like that. In fact, many of the songs I listen to are quite thoughtful. And they are loud. I don’t think that matters much. I completely agree with the then-cardinal’s opinion in regards to rock festivals. We can all look to Woodstock, for example, to see what goes on there. Now, I hope I don’t sound like a hypocrite, so I must mention that I could very well be wrong. Some festivals may be nothing more than a gathering of Christians to praise God with Christian rock, but I somehow doubt it Even though I respect his opinion, I think I’d still recommend the same song I did to you. By the way, just out of curiosity, did you listen to it?

And thank you, McatholicN

 

[McatholicN]

Dear McatholicN,

Cordial greetings again my dear friend.

Talking of trusting our Church, have you pondered what Benedict XVI wrote regarding pop and rock music when he was Cardinal Ratzinger? Granted it is not an official ecclesial pronouncement but is, nonetheless, indicative of the spiritual stature of the man who would become the Holy Father a few years later. Here is what he says:

On the one hand there is pop music, which is certainly no longer supported by the people in the ancient sense (populous). It is aimed at the phenomenom of the masses, is industrially produced, and ultimately has to be described as the cult of the banal. Rock, on the other hand, is the expression of the elemental passions. At rock festivals it assumes a cultic character, a form of worship, in fact, in opposition to Christian worship. People are, so to speak, released from themselves by the experience of being part of a crowd and by the emotional shock rhythm, noise and special lighting effects. However, in the ecstasy of having all their defences torn down, the participants sink, as it were, beneath the elemental source of the universe. The music of the Holy Spirit’s sober inebriation seems to have little chance when self has become a prison, the mind is a shackle, and breaking out of both appears as a true promise of redemption that can be tasted at least for a few moments" (The Spirit of the Liturgy, Ignatius Press, 2000, p. 148).

What I think one can safely say, without fear of contradiction, is that the Holy Father does not speak approvingly of pop and rock music; rather his remarks are extremely negative, especially when he contrasts rock music with “the music of the Holy Spirit’s inebriation”. Quite evidently he considers both rock and pop debased forms of music and these are my sentiments entirely and I pray that they will be yours also my dear friend.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

In regards to pop music, Pope Benedict is condemning its unoriginality and fan’s “worship” of the artists. I certainly agree that modern music is simply made for the money and not to be creative and I also agree that people are taking their fandom a little too far. It’s becoming almost idol worship. I do not have such a fervor for the Beatles, nor does my friend (who, I point out, is very Catholic). We have a common interest in the Beatles and this strengthens our relationship.

I have never attended a rock concert, and do not plan to. The Pope speaks of crazy rock concerts which are like cults. He is simply condemning wild rock concerts.

As Jimmy Akin said in his article “Bad Music” there is a time and a place for everything. This means rock music and “the music of the Spirit’s inebriation”. I appreciate church music and many times I find myself moved towards God listening to it. But just because we wouldn’t, say, eat a cheeseburger at Eucharisitic exposistion doesn’t mean it’s wrong. The same goes for rock music.

I will point out once more that the official Vatican newspaper, L’Osservatore Romano, praised the Beatles for being original and writing for creativity, not just money. This coincides with Pope Bendedict’s first point. "“But, listening to their songs, all of this seems distant and meaningless,” (drug use, calling themselves more popular than Jesus) L’Osservatore said. “Their beautiful melodies, which changed forever pop music and still give us emotions, live on like precious jewels.” The newspaper also released the ten greatest albums of all-time. All rock.

By the way, there are many Catholic rock and rap groups. I don’t see the Church lashing out against them. I’ve always found it very odd that some people are against rock. I never really saw much reason.

 

[Portrait]

In regards to pop music, Pope Benedict is condemning its unoriginality and fan’s “worship” of the artists. I certainly agree that modern music is simply made for the money and not to be creative and I also agree that people are taking their fandom a little too far. It’s becoming almost idol worship. I do not have such a fervor for the Beatles, nor does my friend (who, I point out, is very Catholic). We have a common interest in the Beatles and this strengthens our relationship.

I have never attended a rock concert, and do not plan to. The Pope speaks of crazy rock concerts which are like cults. He is simply condemning wild rock concerts.

As Jimmy Akin said in his article “Bad Music” there is a time and a place for everything. This means rock music and “the music of the Spirit’s inebriation”. I appreciate church music and many times I find myself moved towards God listening to it. But just because we wouldn’t, say, eat a cheeseburger at Eucharisitic exposistion doesn’t mean it’s wrong. The same goes for rock music.

I will point out once more that the official Vatican newspaper, L’Osservatore Romano, praised the Beatles for being original and writing for creativity, not just money. This coincides with Pope Bendedict’s first point. "“But, listening to their songs, all of this seems distant and meaningless,” (drug use, calling themselves more popular than Jesus) L’Osservatore said. “Their beautiful melodies, which changed forever pop music and still give us emotions, live on like precious jewels.” The newspaper also released the ten greatest albums of all-time. All rock.

By the way, there are many Catholic rock and rap groups. I don’t see the Church lashing out against them. I’ve always found it very odd that some people are against rock. I never really saw much reason.

Dear McCatholicN,

Cordial greetings to my dear friend and thankyou for the above comments.

What is surely important to note is that Pope Benedict’s remarks are not context-dependent:

"(Pop music) has to be described as the cult of the banal. Rock on the other hand, is the expression of the elemental passions".

Should Catholics, who are striving to cleanse themselves “from every defilement of body and spirit, and make holiness perfect in the fear of God” (2 Cor. 7: 1, be a part of the cult of the banal or express elemental passions? That seems to be the very antithesis of any earnest pursuit of sanctity and separation from the world.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[McatholicN]

I do not give idol worship to the Beatles or any pop group, and I do not listen to rock because of “elemental passions”. I listen to the Beatles because I like their music, just as you like classical music.

Please explain “separation from the world” more clearly.

I suppose the following could be considered sins because they are not separating us from the world:

Reading a book
Playing sports
Playing piano
Not fasting daily
Spending less than at least 20 hours in prayer daily

Am I right in saying this?

 

[Alex246]

Dear McCatholicN,

Cordial greetings to my dear friend and thankyou for the above comments.

What is surely important to note is that Pope Benedict’s remarks are not context-dependent:

"(Pop music) has to be described as the cult of the banal. Rock on the other hand, is the expression of the elemental passions".

Should Catholics, who are striving to cleanse themselves “from every defilement of body and spirit, and make holiness perfect in the fear of God” (2 Cor. 7: 1, be a part of the cult of the banal or express elemental passions? That seems to be the very antithesis of any earnest pursuit of sanctity and separation from the world.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

By the former cardinal’s inferred definition of elemental passions, some classical music evokes them too. Dvorak’s new World Symphony is, to me, extremely exhilarating. It’s exciting, just like rock, but with different instruments and style. I suppose that would be classified under elemental passions. Also, on a more pop culture oriented note, the piece in the Lord of the Rings soundtrack called “breaking of the fellowship” is probably the most moving piece of music I have ever heard. Are those strong emotions elemental passions? Again, please prove that excitement is sinful, because it is my opinion that only that argument could ever be persuasive in this matter,. Plus, I don’t think you can solely rely on the fallible statement of one cardinal to prove that anybody listening to any rock music is always a sin. I respect the opinions of such holy men, but their opinions are not dogma and I do not feel obliged to grant them anything more than my honest and full consideration. Agreeing with them all would be difficult anyway, as I am sure they cannot all feel the exact same way on every issue, making such attempts useless.

 

[McatholicN]

You know, I just remembered asking my religion teacher a while back about rock music. He just laughed it off and he has much rock music on his iPod. (He almost became a priest - years in seminay). I also remember a rock band from my catholic school playing at my church’s spring festival. Many of my catholic friends are very big rock fans. It seems the rest of the church is at odds with the anti-rockers.

I remember learning about Jehovah’s witnesses (I believe it was them) not allowing dance or birthday parties and just thinking that was hillarious. Now I realize there are Catholics, such as on this forum, with similarly radical views.

I agree with Alex246. We cannot look at simply one Cardinal’s views. It is not dogma (though I very strongly wish there was one).

(Hope this makes sense.)

 

[Desertsailor]

I was thinking about this yesterday at mass and finally came to the conclusion that music adds nothing to the Mass. It’s simply a distraction. Why do people feel they have to be entertained at Mass? If I were a priest there wouldn’t be any music in the church during Mass at all.

 

[McatholicN]

I was thinking about this yesterday at mass and finally came to the conclusion that music adds nothing to the Mass. It’s simply a distraction. Why do people feel they have to be entertained at Mass? If I were a priest there wouldn’t be any music in the church during Mass at all.

But your signature says that you “believe everything the church teaches, no question”. The church is very much for music in church. Do some reading on Saint Gregory the Great. Music in church isn’t all about entertainment (if any).

 

[Desertsailor]

But your signature says that you “believe everything the church teaches, no question”. The church is very much for music in church. Do some reading on Saint Gregory the Great. Music in church isn’t all about entertainment (if any).

Gregorian Chant is fine and it doesn’t bother me at all; however, I’ve never been to a mass where it was used. The only Church music I’ve ever heard at mass sounded like a bunch of sick chickens cackling off key.

 

[Portrait]

I do not give idol worship to the Beatles or any pop group, and I do not listen to rock because of “elemental passions”. I listen to the Beatles because I like their music, just as you like classical music.

Please explain “separation from the world” more clearly.

I suppose the following could be considered sins because they are not separating us from the world:

Reading a book
Playing sports
Playing piano
Not fasting daily
Spending less than at least 20 hours in prayer daily

Am I right in saying this?

Dear McCatholicN,

Cordial greetings and apologies for not responding sooner, but I am inclined to take a break from CAF at the weekends.

First, whilst you do not listen to rock music because of “elemental passions”, notwithstanding those primative and base passions are present in this genre of music, regardless of your intentions and herein lies the problem. Look, exposure to this morally depraved bilge can undermine felt and reasoned convictions, if not immediately, then certainly over a prolonged period of time. Moreover, remember the music per se is its own message, which is, by general consent, the message of moral permissiveness and anti-authoritarianism. Now it is manifestly obvious that such a message is incompatible with the life of virtue, given its immoral and rebellious associations.

Second, explaining sanctity and separation from the world is really a topic for a new thread. However, I will briefly explain how it impinges on the issue of rock music, which is germane to the subject currently under review.

As Christians we ought to strain every nerve as it were so as to ensure that we enter into life eternal; the whole course of this life is a state of probation and we are called to “work out our salvation with fear and trembling”. Being finally saved is an arduous business that involves daily repentance, self-denial, works of mercy and a willingness to take up one’s cross and follow Christ. Separation from the godless world is one of the grand evidences of a work of divine grace within the heart of man.

In recent years Catholics, especially in the West, have been happy to blend in with the pagan society with which they are surrounded; they are seemingly no longer in earnest when it comes to renouncing “irreligion and worldly passions” and living sober “upright, and godly lives in this world” (Titus 2: 12). So many appear to be satisfied with a hand in hand with the world type of religion that makes no demands and allows them to remain devoted to salacious films and tv programmes, culturally unwholesome literature and rock/pop music, the subject of this thread, with its incontrovertible filth and occultic connection. This shallow, easy going type of Christianity is nothing more than a ‘Catholicism Lite’, to use Geoge Wiegel’s amusing turn of phrase, and is utterly contrary to St. Paul’s exhortation to “not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good, acceptable and perfect” (Rom. 12: 2). So many Catholics are virtually indistinguishable from their pagan neighbours, notwithstanding that they are bidden to keep themselves “unstained from the world” (James 1: 18). Listening to Rock music is just one of those pursuits that befouls our souls, thus causing us to be contaminated by its utter filth , so we are well rid of it if wish to remain “unstained”.

The things that you mention are not necessarily sinful, are they? For example it would be morally wrong to read a salacious book, but not a history book or the bible. Sports and piano playing are perfectly permissible in their right place, provided that they do not absorb all of our time to the exclusion of everything else. Fasting and prayer are issues of self-denial and we could all do better in these areas of our lives, for there is always room for improvement.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[Portrait]

By the former cardinal’s inferred definition of elemental passions, some classical music evokes them too. Dvorak’s new World Symphony is, to me, extremely exhilarating. It’s exciting, just like rock, but with different instruments and style. I suppose that would be classified under elemental passions. Also, on a more pop culture oriented note, the piece in the Lord of the Rings soundtrack called “breaking of the fellowship” is probably the most moving piece of music I have ever heard. Are those strong emotions elemental passions? Again, please prove that excitement is sinful, because it is my opinion that only that argument could ever be persuasive in this matter,. Plus, I don’t think you can solely rely on the fallible statement of one cardinal to prove that anybody listening to any rock music is always a sin. I respect the opinions of such holy men, but their opinions are not dogma and I do not feel obliged to grant them anything more than my honest and full consideration. Agreeing with them all would be difficult anyway, as I am sure they cannot all feel the exact same way on every issue, making such attempts useless.

Dear Alex,

The “elemental passions” are not merely ‘excitement’, rather they are primitive and base feelings that are a part of our sinful and fallen nature occasioned by the Fall and which readily resonate with rock and pop music, owing to its inherently immoral and irreligious overtones.

Moreover, listening to classical or sacred music tends to ennoble a man, lifting him to a higher plain of thought and feeling, unlike rock music which tends to debase him and stir up sensual thoughts and even course conduct.

Of course the cardinal was not making an infallible utterance in his book, Spirit of the Liturgy, nevertheless, his words reflect the spiritual calibre of the man who was soon to become the Holy Father and to this extent those who oppose rock music feel that they are in very good company and rejoice exceedingly that such a saintly man is now St. Peter’s successor.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[McatholicN]

Dear McCatholicN,

Cordial greetings and apologies for not responding sooner, but I am inclined to take a break from CAF at the weekends.

First, whilst you do not listen to rock music because of “elemental passions”, notwithstanding those primative and base passions are present in this genre of music, regardless of your intentions and herein lies the problem. Look, exposure to this morally depraved bilge can undermine felt and reasoned convictions, if not immediately, then certainly over a prolonged period of time. Moreover, remember the music per se is its own message, which is, by general consent, the message of moral permissiveness and anti-authoritarianism. Now it is manifestly obvious that such a message is incompatible with the life of virtue, given its immoral and rebellious associations.

Second, explaining sanctity and separation from the world is really a topic for a new thread. However, I will briefly explain how it impinges on the issue of rock music, which is germane to the subject currently under review.

As Christians we ought to strain every nerve as it were so as to ensure that we enter into life eternal; the whole course of this life is a state of probation and we are called to “work out our salvation with fear and trembling”. Being finally saved is an arduous business that involves daily repentance, self-denial, works of mercy and a willingness to take up one’s cross and follow Christ. Separation from the godless world is one of the grand evidences of a work of divine grace within the heart of man.

In recent years Catholics, especially in the West, have been happy to blend in with the pagan society with which they are surrounded; they are seemingly no longer in earnest when it comes to renouncing “irreligion and worldly passions” and living sober “upright, and godly lives in this world” (Titus 2: 12). So many appear to be satisfied with a hand in hand with the world type of religion that makes no demands and allows them to remain devoted to salacious films and tv programmes, culturally unwholesome literature and rock/pop music, the subject of this thread, with its incontrovertible filth and occultic connection. This shallow, easy going type of Christianity is nothing more than a ‘Catholicism Lite’, to use Geoge Wiegel’s amusing turn of phrase, and is utterly contrary to St. Paul’s exhortation to “not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good, acceptable and perfect” (Rom. 12: 2). So many Catholics are virtually indistinguishable from their pagan neighbours, notwithstanding that they are bidden to keep themselves “unstained from the world” (James 1: 18). Listening to Rock music is just one of those pursuits that befouls our souls, thus causing us to be contaminated by its utter filth , so we are well rid of it if wish to remain “unstained”.

The things that you mention are not necessarily sinful, are they? For example it would be morally wrong to read a salacious book, but not a history book or the bible. Sports and piano playing are perfectly permissible in their right place, provided that they do not absorb all of our time to the exclusion of everything else. Fasting and prayer are issues of self-denial and we could all do better in these areas of our lives, for there is always room for improvement.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Your explanation of “elemental passions” makes very little sense. I really can’t count it as a reason against rock.

I think it has become very clear that you yourself have listened to very little rock. You simply explained the message of my previously explained stereotypical rock music. The Beatles do not send messages of anti-authoritarianism, and even if they did, why in the world woudl that matter if they didn’t effect me? In fact, the Beatles song “Getting Better” talks about how the character was a bad young man who was rebellious, then turned his life around and listened to his teachers. The song “Revolution” (which I am listening to right now) is, well, anti-anti-authoritarianism. Many Beatles songs have good, virtuous messages in them, some of which I posted earlier.

Not to mention how the supportive the Church has been of the Beatles.

When you slap the name “utter filth” on a genre of music you know very little about, and give such small evidence to support it, it only makes me disagree with you more.

Give me some examples of occultic connection.

 

[Desertsailor]

Music at Mass is like TV on honeymoon, unnecessary.

 

[McatholicN]

Music at Mass is like TV on honeymoon, unnecessary.

Although I disagree with you, that was pretty clever.

 

[Portrait]

Your explanation of “elemental passions” makes very little sense. I really can’t count it as a reason against rock.

I think it has become very clear that you yourself have listened to very little rock. You simply explained the message of my previously explained stereotypical rock music. The Beatles do not send messages of anti-authoritarianism, and even if they did, why in the world woudl that matter if they didn’t effect me? In fact, the Beatles song “Getting Better” talks about how the character was a bad young man who was rebellious, then turned his life around and listened to his teachers. The song “Revolution” (which I am listening to right now) is, well, anti-anti-authoritarianism. Many Beatles songs have good, virtuous messages in them, some of which I posted earlier.

Not to mention how the supportive the Church has been of the Beatles.

When you slap the name “utter filth” on a genre of music you know very little about, and give such small evidence to support it, it only makes me disagree with you more.

Give me some examples of occultic connection.

Dear McatholicN,

So sorry that you did not understand my explanation of the “elemental passions”. These are the carnal, worldly and sensual parts of our fallen nature which resonate with the carnal and sexual permissiveness that is inherent in rock music; they are naturally attracted to each other. Rock, unlike classical or sacred music, does not ennoble a man by lifting him to a higher level of thought and feeling, but rather tends to debase him by arousing sensual, worldly and oftentimes, course and anti-social conduct. Trust that that helps clarify my meaning.

On the contrary, I have, prior to my conversion to Christ, listened to a great deal of rock music, soul and funk, country and western, and commercial pop music, especially 60’s and 70’s. Now that I have renounced all of this unwholesome and reprehensible rubbish, I do not tend to talk about individual artists and groups, not because I am ingnorant of them or their music, but because I do not find it a very edifying subject upon which to dwell for too long. However, having said that, I can discuss the performers and their music if you so wish, save for material which is downright obscene and hence unsuitable for a Christian website such as CAF.

Rock music by its very nature is revolutionary; by its beat and sound it has always implicitly rejected restraints and has celebrated freedom and sexuality. Thus “utter filth” is a very apt description of the rock genre, for the morally offensive drug-induced bilge water that rock performers have churned out over the years reveals only too well the state of their morally depraved hearts. As a Christian I am astounded that Catholics are seemingly quite happy to listen and to defend this mind polluting stuff, a sign, no doubt, of the spiritual declension of the Church in the the Western world and the influence of secularization.

Sorry my dear friend, but the waters of rock are just too polluted and impure for the the Catholic to bathe in without becoming morally tainted and, in the process of time, corrupted - perhaps forever. BTW, I make no apology for sounding like a moral crusader, for I firmly believe that an aggressive critical appraisal of the entire rock music genre is long over due

Well its past my bedtime, but I will discuss rocks all too close links with the occult next time.

Well goodbye for now McatholicN.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait