Incarnation and Sola Scriptura

[apophasis]

I apologize if this may sound “regurgitated” to some, but by what authority was Scripture put together?

Scripture was never “put together.” It was written. It was divinely inspired the very moment each Book was penned by the authors.

Who decided what books belonged in the Bible?

The Holy Spirit who inspired them.

Why wasn’t the Book of Enoch included in the Bible, despite the fact that it is quoted in the Epistle of Saint Jude as written by Enoch?

Quoting an outside source does not automatically make that source divinely inspired. Jude’s quote from it, however, is.

Last time I checked, there was no divinely inspired table of contents.

The “table of contents” in front of your Bible is the publisher’s idea.

Moreover, why did it take nearly 300 years before the New Testament as we know it became the official/approved canon?

It wouldn’t matter if took 1500 years, those writing would still be divinely inspired. Councils only ratified what was already known amongst the churches.

If oral tradition was so unreliable, why didn’t Jesus directly write His own words?

No need. It was ordained to be the work of the Holy Spirit working through men.

Why did it take several decades before the Evangelists wrote down His sayings (Read opening of the Gospel of Luke).

What’s the problem? All the Books of the N.T. were written by men who were contemporaries of Christ. They weren’t written a generation later. Think about it. The Gospels and the Book of Acts are HISTORICAL accounts. In other words, they give an account of what happened (past tense). And the Epistles confront theological or behavorial problems within the churches (or men) to which they were written. But ALL Holy Spirit inspired.

How are you so sure the text of the Bible was not tampered with later in history? How do you know if things were taken out or added?

We have thousands of extant copies from which to compare.

Please point out where in the Bible does it says that oral tradition has no power to preserve divine truth?

No need. God does not say He is watching over “oral traditions” to perform them. What oral tradition do know that has been perfectly preserved? And tell me how you can prove this.

How was the prophecy of Enoch preserved for several millenia before it was commited to writing in the 2/1st century B.C.?

You and I only know of Enoch because of the written Scriptures.

 

[tequilamac]

I noticed the thread title included “Incarnation”. WAs the Incarnation a part of the thread or was that simply a mistype?

 

[mikeledes]

Scripture was never “put together.” It was written. It was divinely inspired the very moment each Book was penned by the authors.The Holy Spirit who inspired them.Quoting an outside source does not automatically make that source divinely inspired. Jude’s quote from it, however, is.The “table of contents” in front of your Bible is the publisher’s idea.It wouldn’t matter if took 1500 years, those writing would still be divinely inspired. Councils only ratified what was already known amongst the churches.No need. It was ordained to be the work of the Holy Spirit working through men.What’s the problem? All the Books of the N.T. were written by men who were contemporaries of Christ. They weren’t written a generation later. Think about it. The Gospels and the Book of Acts are HISTORICAL accounts. In other words, they give an account of what happened (past tense). And the Epistles confront theological or behavorial problems within the churches (or men) to which they were written. But ALL Holy Spirit inspired.We have thousands of extant copies from which to compare.No need. God does not say He is watching over “oral traditions” to perform them. What oral tradition do know that has been perfectly preserved? And tell me how you can prove this.You and I only know of Enoch because of the written Scriptures.

So the Bible wasn’t “put together?” It just fell from the sky neatly bound, I guess. The Church did not make the Bible inspired, but it determined which ones were inspired and which ones were not. This process took several centuries and this is recorded in the writings of some of the Church Fathers (i.e. Eusebius) and is supported by secular, Catholic, and Protestant historians.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

From wikipedia.com on the Book of Enoch:

The book consists of five quite distinct major sections:

The Book of Watchers (1 Enoch 1 – 36)
The Book of Parables (1 Enoch 37 – 71) (Also called the Similitudes of Enoch)
The Book of the Heavenly Luminaries (1 Enoch 72 – 82) (Usually abbreviated to The Book of Luminaries. Also called the Astronomical Book)
The Dream Visions (1 Enoch 83 – 90) (Also called the Book of Dreams)
The Epistle of Enoch (1 Enoch 91 – 108)
According to some recent scholars,[1][2] these five sections were originally independent works, themselves a product of much editoral arrangement, and were only later redacted into what we now call 1 Enoch. However, this view is opposed by many scholars who maintain the literary integrity of the Book of Enoch, one of the most recent (1990) being Wossenie Yifru.

A great deal of the undercurrent to the narrative of the sections has been claimed to be concerned with the era of the Maccabees and it is for that reason that these western scholars date the sections as having originated during or after the 2nd century BC, although these assertions have not proved convincing to all concerned, for what they say is lack of any legitimate evidence of Maccabean-era authorship. 1 Enoch 6–11, part of the Book of Watchers, is thought to have been the original core of that Book, around which the remainder was later added, not least because Enoch is not mentioned in it.

The Book of Parables appears to be based on the Book of Watchers, but presenting a later development of the idea of final judgement – rather than being a final judgement of the fallen angels, the Book of Parables instead presents a final judgement of earthly kings. The Book of Parables contains several references to a Son of Man, as well as messianic themes, and has only been found in Christian editions of 1 Enoch, so several scholars have taken the view that this section dates from more Christian times. However, since the term was also just a Jewish way of saying human, and since the final chapters of the section appear to identify Enoch himself as the Son of Man in question, the work may be earlier, and a number of academics have proposed that the Book of Parables may be as early as the late 1st century BC.

The Book of Dreams contains a vision of a history of Israel all the way down to the revolt of the Maccabees, leading scholars to date it to Maccabean times

The book is referred to, and quoted, in Jude, 1:14–15 (KJV):

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these [men], saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Compare this with Enoch 1:9, translated from the Ethiopian:

And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones To execute judgement upon all, And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.
The Greek language text was known to, and quoted by nearly all, Church Fathers. A number of the Church Fathers thought it to be an inspired work, particularly Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origen, Clement of Alexandria and Tertullian, based on its quotation in Jude. However, some later Fathers denied the canonicity of the book and some even considered the letter of Jude uncanonical because it refers to an “apocryphal” work (Cf. Gerome, Catal. Script. Eccles. 4.).

The Jewish Sanhedrin at Yavneh c. 90 AD removed this book from its Scriptures. Partly due to this, the book was discredited after the (Christian) Council of Laodicea in 364. The Greek text was subsequently lost.

The early Christian father Tertullian wrote c. 200 AD that the Book of Enoch had been rejected by the Jews, because it contained prophecies pertaining to Christ.[3]

The Book of Enoch appeared thousands of years after Enoch was taken to heaven. Jude, on the other hand, attrobutes it to Enoch. How was this prophecy preserved before it was committed to writing?

Jude also quotes the “Assumption of Moses” in v. 9. The event he discusses is not found in the Torah and comes from an extrabiblical source. In this case, he is not making a direct quote so you can’t say “that part was inspired.” How was this tradition preserved before it was committed to writing in an apocryphal work?

God bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

From wikipedia.com on the Book of Enoch:

The book consists of five quite distinct major sections:

The Book of Watchers (1 Enoch 1 – 36)
The Book of Parables (1 Enoch 37 – 71) (Also called the Similitudes of Enoch)
The Book of the Heavenly Luminaries (1 Enoch 72 – 82) (Usually abbreviated to The Book of Luminaries. Also called the Astronomical Book)
The Dream Visions (1 Enoch 83 – 90) (Also called the Book of Dreams)
The Epistle of Enoch (1 Enoch 91 – 108)
According to some recent scholars,[1][2] these five sections were originally independent works, themselves a product of much editoral arrangement, and were only later redacted into what we now call 1 Enoch. However, this view is opposed by many scholars who maintain the literary integrity of the Book of Enoch, one of the most recent (1990) being Wossenie Yifru.

A great deal of the undercurrent to the narrative of the sections has been claimed to be concerned with the era of the Maccabees and it is for that reason that these western scholars date the sections as having originated during or after the 2nd century BC, although these assertions have not proved convincing to all concerned, for what they say is lack of any legitimate evidence of Maccabean-era authorship. 1 Enoch 6–11, part of the Book of Watchers, is thought to have been the original core of that Book, around which the remainder was later added, not least because Enoch is not mentioned in it.

The Book of Parables appears to be based on the Book of Watchers, but presenting a later development of the idea of final judgement – rather than being a final judgement of the fallen angels, the Book of Parables instead presents a final judgement of earthly kings. The Book of Parables contains several references to a Son of Man, as well as messianic themes, and has only been found in Christian editions of 1 Enoch, so several scholars have taken the view that this section dates from more Christian times. However, since the term was also just a Jewish way of saying human, and since the final chapters of the section appear to identify Enoch himself as the Son of Man in question, the work may be earlier, and a number of academics have proposed that the Book of Parables may be as early as the late 1st century BC.

The Book of Dreams contains a vision of a history of Israel all the way down to the revolt of the Maccabees, leading scholars to date it to Maccabean times

The book is referred to, and quoted, in Jude, 1:14–15 (KJV):

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these [men], saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Compare this with Enoch 1:9, translated from the Ethiopian:

And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones To execute judgement upon all, And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.
The Greek language text was known to, and quoted by nearly all, Church Fathers. A number of the Church Fathers thought it to be an inspired work, particularly Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origen, Clement of Alexandria and Tertullian, based on its quotation in Jude. However, some later Fathers denied the canonicity of the book and some even considered the letter of Jude uncanonical because it refers to an “apocryphal” work (Cf. Gerome, Catal. Script. Eccles. 4.).

The Jewish Sanhedrin at Yavneh c. 90 AD removed this book from its Scriptures. Partly due to this, the book was discredited after the (Christian) Council of Laodicea in 364. The Greek text was subsequently lost.

The early Christian father Tertullian wrote c. 200 AD that the Book of Enoch had been rejected by the Jews, because it contained prophecies pertaining to Christ.[3]

The Book of Enoch appeared thousands of years after Enoch was taken to heaven. Jude, on the other hand, attrobutes it to Enoch. How was this prophecy preserved before it was committed to writing?

Jude also quotes the “Assumption of Moses” in v. 9. The event he discusses is not found in the Torah and comes from an extrabiblical source. In this case, he is not making a direct quote so you can’t say “that part was inspired.” How was this tradition preserved before it was committed to writing in an apocryphal work?

God bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

From wikipedia.com on the Book of Enoch:

The book consists of five quite distinct major sections:

The Book of Watchers (1 Enoch 1 – 36)
The Book of Parables (1 Enoch 37 – 71) (Also called the Similitudes of Enoch)
The Book of the Heavenly Luminaries (1 Enoch 72 – 82) (Usually abbreviated to The Book of Luminaries. Also called the Astronomical Book)
The Dream Visions (1 Enoch 83 – 90) (Also called the Book of Dreams)
The Epistle of Enoch (1 Enoch 91 – 108)
According to some recent scholars,[1][2] these five sections were originally independent works, themselves a product of much editoral arrangement, and were only later redacted into what we now call 1 Enoch. However, this view is opposed by many scholars who maintain the literary integrity of the Book of Enoch, one of the most recent (1990) being Wossenie Yifru.

A great deal of the undercurrent to the narrative of the sections has been claimed to be concerned with the era of the Maccabees and it is for that reason that these western scholars date the sections as having originated during or after the 2nd century BC, although these assertions have not proved convincing to all concerned, for what they say is lack of any legitimate evidence of Maccabean-era authorship. 1 Enoch 6–11, part of the Book of Watchers, is thought to have been the original core of that Book, around which the remainder was later added, not least because Enoch is not mentioned in it.

The Book of Parables appears to be based on the Book of Watchers, but presenting a later development of the idea of final judgement – rather than being a final judgement of the fallen angels, the Book of Parables instead presents a final judgement of earthly kings. The Book of Parables contains several references to a Son of Man, as well as messianic themes, and has only been found in Christian editions of 1 Enoch, so several scholars have taken the view that this section dates from more Christian times. However, since the term was also just a Jewish way of saying human, and since the final chapters of the section appear to identify Enoch himself as the Son of Man in question, the work may be earlier, and a number of academics have proposed that the Book of Parables may be as early as the late 1st century BC.

The Book of Dreams contains a vision of a history of Israel all the way down to the revolt of the Maccabees, leading scholars to date it to Maccabean times

The book is referred to, and quoted, in Jude, 1:14–15 (KJV):

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these [men], saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Compare this with Enoch 1:9, translated from the Ethiopian:

And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones To execute judgement upon all, And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.
The Greek language text was known to, and quoted by nearly all, Church Fathers. A number of the Church Fathers thought it to be an inspired work, particularly Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origen, Clement of Alexandria and Tertullian, based on its quotation in Jude. However, some later Fathers denied the canonicity of the book and some even considered the letter of Jude uncanonical because it refers to an “apocryphal” work (Cf. Gerome, Catal. Script. Eccles. 4.).

The Jewish Sanhedrin at Yavneh c. 90 AD removed this book from its Scriptures. Partly due to this, the book was discredited after the (Christian) Council of Laodicea in 364. The Greek text was subsequently lost.

The early Christian father Tertullian wrote c. 200 AD that the Book of Enoch had been rejected by the Jews, because it contained prophecies pertaining to Christ.[3]

The Book of Enoch appeared thousands of years after Enoch was taken to heaven. Jude, on the other hand, attrobutes it to Enoch. How was this prophecy preserved before it was committed to writing?

Jude also quotes the “Assumption of Moses” in v. 9. The event he discusses is not found in the Torah and comes from an extrabiblical source. In this case, he is not making a direct quote so you can’t say “that part was inspired.” How was this tradition preserved before it was committed to writing in an apocryphal work?

God bless,
Michael