Incarnation and the Blessed Virgin Mary

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The contention is that the doctrine of the incarnation leads directly to all the accepted dogmas concerning the Blessed Mother of God (I have no problem with that phrase and I am a Presbyterian. Well, sort of).

I think the arguments go like this, to kick things off:
  1. Jesus is holy. Mary therefore was His tabernacle, not to be violated by Joseph. So we get perpetual virginity. Jesus appeared in the upper room when it was locked, so also He passed through when He was born and so her virginity is intact.
  2. Jesus is holy. He inherited His human nature from Mary. So He had to inherit a sinless human nature from her, so when He was conceived, she had to be sinless. The only way to do that is to have never sinned (sin, even forgiven, leaving a reminder of its presence), so we get the immaculate conception.
These seem inadequate. Not sure why. Someone else can grab the other issue.
 
Truthstalker said:
The contention is that the doctrine of the incarnation leads directly to all the accepted dogmas concerning the Blessed Mother of God (I have no problem with that phrase and I am a Presbyterian. Well, sort of).

I think the arguments go like this, to kick things off:
  1. Jesus is holy. Mary therefore was His tabernacle, not to be violated by Joseph. So we get perpetual virginity. Jesus appeared in the upper room when it was locked, so also He passed through when He was born and so her virginity is intact.
  2. Jesus is holy. He inherited His human nature from Mary. So He had to inherit a sinless human nature from her, so when He was conceived, she had to be sinless. The only way to do that is to have never sinned (sin, even forgiven, leaving a reminder of its presence), so we get the immaculate conception.
These seem inadequate. Not sure why. Someone else can grab the other issue.
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Also remember that all Dogmas or Doctrines concerning the Blessed Mother always point back to Christ.
 
Truthstalker,

The reasons for the Incarnation are many:
  1. that men might come to know the love of God,
  2. to be our model of holiness,
  3. to inaugurate the new creation,
  4. to make mankind partakers of the divine nature,and,
  5. to save and reconcile mankind.
I do not know where in the heck you got your two points in your post about the Incarnation.

The first statement’s fourth sentence is a non sequitor. What were you trying to say here?
 
Hi Truth__,

All the points you make show that it was highly fitting that Mary should have those privileges. They are not proof of themselves They are supporting evidence.

Verbum
 
I think what I am looking for is the Catholic argumentation that the nature of the incarnation requires that the Marian dogmas be true.
 
  1. Jesus is holy. He inherited His human nature from Mary. So He had to inherit a sinless human nature from her, so when He was conceived, she had to be sinless. The only way to do that is to have never sinned (sin, even forgiven, leaving a reminder of its presence), so we get the immaculate conception
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This is not the reason given in Catholic teaching for Mary’s sinless nature (You’ll find nothing in the CCC - #490-493 about the necessity for Mary to be sinless) I know there’s been another thread on this forum that has covered this question.) As regards a theological reason, the most I have come across is that it is “fitting”.

Do you by any chance have the book “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma” by Dr. Ludwig Ott - published by Tan? If not, I suggest you get a copy for yourself. It will give you the Scripture and ECF references for the various Catholic dogmas and also a lot of the theological rationale that took place around the dogma. If you don’t have the book, II can give you all those references if you like - but I’ll wait till you respond and say you want them.

Nita
 
Nita -

IThe idea that God did something because it was “fitting” not because of any other reason is very interesting.

I’ve heard high praise of Ott. Someday I hope to read him. Others may be interested in the quotes and I will read them if you post them, but there’s another idea I am going to pursue right now.

Thanks either way.
 
Truthstalker said:
Nita -

I’ve heard high praise of Ott. Someday I hope to read him. Others may be interested in the quotes and I will read them if you post them, but there’s another idea I am going to pursue right now.

Thanks either way.
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You don’t exactly sit down and read Ott. His book is more like a reference book. He manages to convey more info in a short space than any author I’ve come across.

Nita
 
Nita said:
You don’t exactly sit down and read Ott. His book is more like a reference book. He manages to convey more info in a short space than any author I’ve come across.

Nita
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I’ve been caught reading dictionaries more than once.:whacky:
 
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