Incest

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Mystic_Warrior

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Okay. This is a strange situation, but here goes:

I know some young people who were brought up in a family that practiced incest. The children even practice it with each other presently. They see nothing wrong with it. I’ve counseled them, told them it was morally wrong to do so and is against God’s intentions for mankind.

The problem is that these young people have no respect for God, so no appeal to the Bible or God will suffice them as a response to the immoral behavior. I’m really stuck with this. How do I explain to them that it is wrong even on a secular level to practice this immoral behavior?

It is sickening to even have the discussion with them, but they believe it is normal and that all families do this :eek: When I told them that most families do NOT do this they were stumped. They have been sheltered most of their lives.

Beyond extensive counseling, how can I reach them?

The circumstances are extensive and they all really need professional help. But, they are unwilling to be a part of that at this moment.

Peace…

MW
 
Pray, pray, pray. And get some other people involved as well. What I mean is, have people try to become friends with them. Then, maybe, the family will see that it isn’t normal behaviour. Also, report this to whatever authorities necessary. The sooner this is taken care of, the better it will turn out. I hope. (and pray)
 
I assume when you say ‘young people’ you mean under the age of 18. How/why you have conversations with them about this subject is another mystery- do you speak with the parents as well?

If the children are under the legal age then a call to the local authorities is the most obvious choice and should be done without further delay. Unless you are a professional counselor or a Catholic priest you are under no obligation to remain quiet from what they have told you and you have a civic duty to speak out.

If they are older I see two choices/actions: 1. Pull the father aside and have a serious- maybe physical- discussion with him punctuating the long term emotional harm this will have on the children- present and future. 2. Dis-associate yourself from any further interaction with them.

Recently there was a man in Europe that locked his then 17 year old daughter in the basement of their home and for the next 20 years or so fathered I think 5-7 children with her. Maybe the ‘family’ you are dealing with is not so sinister but the effect is the same.
 
Oh I totally agree with the PP…this is child abuse and the children need to be protected.

I’m sure you can call a child abuse hot-line.

Also, I don’t think the professional counselor’s session with minors is protected. Counselors, I believe are mandatory reporters. I’ll need to find out.

So absolutely sad!
 
How can you reach them? With the law. What they are doing is not only immoral, but illegal. And if there are children involved, and you know about it, you are obligated to call the police and have the children removed.

~Liza
 
These young people are all under 18. They do not live with their parents. They were abandoned by their parents and are now in a state run children’s home. The authorities know of the abuse. The parents have been dealt with. I’m dealing with the aftermath.

Listen, there are extenuating circumstances here. I’m planning on adopting them, at least 4 of these children. They have all been abused in every way. My wife and I have gotten attached to them and want to help them heal and show them what a real family should be like.

I’m looking for a response on the immorality of incest that will make sense to these brainwashed kids so that they will stop doing this. It’s a long story about how I met them. Some things have to be in place before they can live in our home and this is one of the issues.

I guess I should have been more clear in the first post about this. So, now you know.

Now, can anyone help me with at least a secular response on why incest should not be practiced?

Peace…

MW
 
Verisimilitude said:
  1. Pull the father aside and have a serious- maybe physical- discussion with him punctuating the long term emotional harm this will have on the children- present and future.
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Just curious as to why you wouldn’t pull the mother aside too? The OP didn’t say which parent was involved…
 
Hi Mystic Warrior

I am not sure how you could deal with this on a secular level all on your own.

You might need professional help…a good child psychologist that has experience with victims of child sexual abuse.
These children seem very confused and very wounded. They need much more help than I could advise.

You have my prayers.
 
Mystic,

You’ve bitten off way more than you can chew here. Professional therapy is needed, and even then it may not work.

These children may be scarred for life and may continue to act out in inappropriate sexual ways. They may not be candidates to come into your home, ever, especially if you have other children.
 
1ke said:
Mystic,

You’ve bitten off way more than you can chew here. Professional therapy is needed, and even then it may not work.

These children may be scarred for life and may continue to act out in inappropriate sexual ways. They may not be candidates to come into your home, ever, especially if you have other children.
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I have to agree with this, now that I know more of the situation.

I can understand your desire to give them a healthy and stable home, but these children are going to need continued long term therapy, perhaps for the rest of their lives. That is not to say that they are not worth adopting, but I certainly hope you know what you are getting into.

And - if you already have children in the home, I would never even consider this, personally. This may put your own children in danger. Not because the adopted children are criminals, but that they don’t know any better and will clearly not know appropriate boundaries. It would be horribly unfair to any existing children to put them in such dangerous circumstances.

God Bless you for even trying to help them though.

~Liza
 
1ke said:
Mystic,

You’ve bitten off way more than you can chew here. Professional therapy is needed, and even then it may not work.

These children may be scarred for life and may continue to act out in inappropriate sexual ways. They may not be candidates to come into your home, ever, especially if you have other children.
Click to expand...
I realize this is a major undertaking and they will need ongoing professional help. They have already received some help. They won’t come into our home till many things are different. We have been trying to help them get through some of the brainwashing issues by simply showing them what the rest of the world is like. They will certainly be scarred for life. One is 13, one is 11, the others are 17 and 5.

Peace…

MW
 
My plan (dream right now) not only for these children, but for many others, is to start a Christian children’s home for abused children, complete with counselors, medical faculty and other professionals. I’m a certified hypnotist and will also want to be involved.

Trust me, I will not let anyone in my home if they are a danger to my present children. They are first and foremost my prime responsibility and I don’t foresee taking any children into my home for a while. But, I at least am trying to start the dialogue with the children to understand what their needs are going to be and the home they are living in is encouraging a “normal” family to be somewhat of a “big brother, big sister” to them to help their process of healing.

I understand your reservations and I appreciate that. I ask that you all keep these children in your prayers and ask God to be merciful and to give us wisdom and understanding.

Peace…

MW
 
Mystic_Warrior said:
Okay. This is a strange situation, but here goes:

I know some young people who were brought up in a family that practiced incest. The children even practice it with each other presently. They see nothing wrong with it. I’ve counseled them, told them it was morally wrong to do so and is against God’s intentions for mankind.
Click to expand...
if you have knowledge or well grounded suspicion that adults are commiting abusive acts against children it is your duty morally and legally to report it immediately to civil authorities and law enforcement. If you do not report you are an accessory to this crime. Unless you are a professional with specific competence in counselling child abuse victims your intervention could cause much more harm than good. Every day you fail to report is another day of enabling the situation to continue.

If you don’t want people to misread your situation why not give all the relevant info in your initial post? If you are planning to adopt or foster child abuse victims it is imperative that the placement agency give you training, assistance and support in understanding and dealing with the inevitable problems that arise, and that the agency have these children in counselling a well.
 
AHapka said:
Just curious as to why you wouldn’t pull the mother aside too? The OP didn’t say which parent was involved…
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I have no qualifications other than some personal experience to speak of such matters. As a man; even if the mother was/is the instigator of the abuse the OP suggests an accepted practice within the family making such discussion fruitless since I would keep my anger in check as I do with all women in all circumstances. I would simply call the authorities. A man is different. I have no such compunction to change his mind one way or another in a situation such as this and then call the authorities.
 
puzzleannie said:
if you have knowledge or well grounded suspicion that adults are commiting abusive acts against children it is your duty morally and legally to report it immediately to civil authorities and law enforcement. If you do not report you are an accessory to this crime. Unless you are a professional with specific competence in counselling child abuse victims your intervention could cause much more harm than good. Every day you fail to report is another day of enabling the situation to continue.
Click to expand...
I already addressed this.
If you don’t want people to misread your situation why not give all the relevant info in your initial post? If you are planning to adopt or foster child abuse victims it is imperative that the placement agency give you training, assistance and support in understanding and dealing with the inevitable problems that arise, and that the agency have these children in counselling a well.
Click to expand...
My original question was pretty simple. And I’ve repeatedly asked the same question about arguments against incest either secularly or Biblically. I didn’t believe asking this question would require all of the background information for someone to understand those questions. And still no one has answered the same question, including you, while telling me the very things that I already know.

Peace…

MW
 
This is a tough situation, but lets get back on topic here. It seems the only argument you can make is from natural law.

Explain the genetic aspects of the mating process and how the conceived child is genetically stronger if unrelated people are involved.

Introduce them to society more fully. There are three things they should see:
  1. It is natural for a person to pick one other person as a spouse and spend the rest of their lives devoted to that person.
  2. It is natural for a person to abstain from sex until they find the person they want to marry (I don’t think our society has completely lost this quite yet).
  3. It is natural for a person to leave the home upon reaching adulthood and “seek their fortunes on their own” (this includes a spouse).
If you can help them understand this, you can start introducing them to religion. I will keep them (and you) in my prayers. :signofcross:
 
Let’s take another approach on this question, because we’ve really gotten off track from the intent of this thread.

So, the question is this:

What arguments can one make against the practice of incest to anyone in the secular world who doesn’t accept the immorality of it from a Christian perspective? I’ve seen places on the internet where seemingly intelligent people think it is acceptable and not harmful to do this. I did a search for “arguments against incest” and I was rather surprised to see that sites came up that attempted to refute the assertion that incest was immoral.

Peace…

MW
 
Caesar517 said:
This is a tough situation, but lets get back on topic here. It seems the only argument you can make is from natural law.

Explain the genetic aspects of the mating process and how the conceived child is genetically stronger if unrelated people are involved.

Introduce them to society more fully. There are three things they should see:
  1. It is natural for a person to pick one other person as a spouse and spend the rest of their lives devoted to that person.
  2. It is natural for a person to abstain from sex until they find the person they want to marry (I don’t think our society has completely lost this quite yet).
  3. It is natural for a person to leave the home upon reaching adulthood and “seek their fortunes on their own” (this includes a spouse).
If you can help them understand this, you can start introducing them to religion. I will keep them (and you) in my prayers. :signofcross:
Click to expand...
Now THAT’S what I was looking for, i.e. a reasoned response that could appeal to natural law (as you put it) that shows how this behavior is not acceptable, whether it was immoral or not. Of course it’s immoral and disordered behavior because God has said so.

Thank you Caesar 517! And I appreciate the prayers for us all. I was shocked that people think it’s acceptable, whether they are adult or not. Chances are that if an adult thinks it’s okay, that thinking could have been instilled in them from childhood.

Peace…

MW
 
You and they have my prayers.

You could also show the older ones the biological issues that it can present. Basic genetics shows how a bad trait can be amplified.

I know that this also includes an acceptance of the issue of pregnancy, but it is an option for discussion.
 
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