Incoherent concept of timeless God

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bahman
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
No, God is eternal the universe isn’t. Now, the universe may turn out to be infinite, but it can never be, by definition, eternal because it had a beginning.
I don’t understand how your comment is related to mine.
This is a paradox; from our perspective God thinking about creating, God deciding to create and God creating happen at the same time. There is no such thing as “timeless”.
That is not correct. Catholic believes that God dwells in timeless state.
We say God is outside of space/time or beyond all possible times simultaneously and eternally.
Time doesn’t exist so there is no outside of time.
Some food for thought: Quantum science allows for an effect to be observed before the event that caused it.
I don’t understand how Hetrocausality is related to our discussion.
This is speculation, supposition and assumption. God is eternal which isn’t incoherent, it’s simply humanly incomprehensible.
What do you mean with eternal?
 
Tttttt hh hh iii ssssss iii ssssss ssssss iii ll ll yy yy
tt hh hh iii ss iii ss ss iii ll ll yy yy
tt hhhhhh iii ssssss iii ssssss ssssss iii ll ll yyyy
tt hh hh iii ss iii ss ss iii ll ll yy
tt hh hh iii ssssss iii ssssss ssssss iii lllll lllll yy
Indeed, however I must ask if that is you concensus on the subject, do you then not acknowledge the validity of my previous arguement:

"Zzzzzz rrrr r rr. Z. X. X. Xxxxxxx. Nnnnnn

Ddddddd. Ggggggg. Gggggg. Zzzzzz. X

Xx. Xx. Cc. Cccccc"

For I do believe that these two may have a difficult time in coexistence.
 
Indeed, however I must ask if that is you concensus on the subject, do you then not acknowledge the validity of my previous arguement:

"Zzzzzz rrrr r rr. Z. X. X. Xxxxxxx. Nnnnnn

Ddddddd. Ggggggg. Gggggg. Zzzzzz. X

Xx. Xx. Cc. Cccccc"

For I do believe that these two may have a difficult time in coexistence.
They exist in different versions of the multiverse, Lethal Mouse.

Time for me to take a Quantum Leap…oh darn! 237348hdaijfdhijafehiuq3u98012uhkjdsab
afdhjafdhfsdkjnfdou91348u31209iu2iouj24oknfdkjhfcijj13iou39i13490ufkdaj09123891347931490341coifeh8913u109324u8412098i142091423432p9q3uofjdskvjnoiefqjoiqwu3oiqwjoiafhfsfadior2u3oireujio3r2uio23ruoi32u23o

NO CARRIER
 
I think you already posted this a couple days ago. 🙂

God’s decision and acting do not have to be before/after. It can be concurrent. His decision to create and the very act of creation could very well be the same thing.

Humans must decide and then act. We need time for our synapses to process information and then for the electrical signals to reach our muscles and do something. God is spirit, there is no need for this.

I’d say that God’s will and His actions are not different things. Of course there is no ‘before’ or ‘after’ in eternity. His actions are not dependent on anything. He does not need to think, then act, then reflect, then do something else. God just is.
I just found that the current problem is deeper than what was stated in another thread. Please read post #19 for more explanation.
 
I just found that the current problem is deeper than what was
stated in another thread. Please read post #19 for more explanation.
quod modo dictum est quod ad praesentes quaestiones alio profundior fila telarum. XIX Post Lege amplius exponetur. / QUOTE]
Speak Latin Or Die! 😃
 
Your idea of incoherence is subjective.
We don’t have direct access to objective ideas, so called absolute truth.
What you’re really saying is that you, personally, don’t/can’t comprehended it.
That is not correct. I am just tryting to show that your definition of God is incoherent.
Perhaps you could manage not to claim that no one can comprehend it?
I think we can manage it. Everything is matter of mental exercises otherwise your God is cruel, because He would create human, intellectual beings, then putting them in the box of ignorance, so called universe.
 
We don’t have direct access to objective ideas, so called absolute truth.
This is incorrect
That is not correct. I am just tryting to show that your definition of God is incoherent.
To YOU
I think we can manage it. Everything is matter of mental exercises otherwise your God is cruel, because He would create human, intellectual beings, then putting them in the box of ignorance, so called universe.
You didn’t manage it. You again claimed that if you can’t understand it, no one can.

I don’t understand algebra, but I accept that other people do.
 
Wingardium Leviosa!
Sectumsempra!
Crucio!
Levicorpus!

No, none of my spells are making this thread go away. And my English-to-Latin translator is busted. I’m so depressed. I’m going to go home, get drunk on tea and listen to this song:

Et timuerunt me
 
First, there is no simultaneously in timeless state but in temporal state.
And you know this how?
The problem arises when we like to give a personality to unmoved mover, such as ability to decide (like us), so called God. We know that decision in us allows action which act follows decision similar to a chain of causalities. We have no problem with unmoved mover unless we give a extra attribute to it so called decision. Act however in God follows decision as it was discussed. We then accept that God is in timeless state, since time is a part of creation. That is where the concept of God collapses.
I disagree.
Because metaphysical laws are construct of our imaginations hence they are wrong if they oppose with physical laws because the physical laws are the result of observation of reality.
And God is so far above our understanding that we can’t hope to explain him. I can’t tell you the mechanics of how my car runs either but I can use it to get me places.
 
They exist in different versions of the multiverse, Lethal Mouse.

Time for me to take a Quantum Leap…oh darn! 237348hdaijfdhijafehiuq3u98012uhkjdsab
afdhjafdhfsdkjnfdou91348u31209iu2iouj24oknfdkjhfcijj13iou39i13490ufkdaj09123891347931490341coifeh8913u109324u8412098i142091423432p9q3uofjdskvjnoiefqjoiqwu3oiqwjoiafhfsfadior2u3oireujio3r2uio23ruoi32u23o

NO CARRIER
I think we can agree on this then. I shall be off in my Tardis 😃
 
First, there is no simultaneously in timeless state but in temporal state. Second, let me open the problem a little more: We believe in causality. We believe that a chain causality can go back into infinitum hence we believe in unmoved mover. The problem arises when we like to give a personality to unmoved mover, such as ability to decide (like us), so called God. We know that decision in us allows action which act follows decision similar to a chain of causalities. We have no problem with unmoved mover unless we give a extra attribute to it so called decision. Act however in God follows decision as it was discussed. We then accept that God is in timeless state, since time is a part of creation. That is where the concept of God collapses.
The part in bold is a direct contradiction. That which is not bound by time will appear to be simultaneous…this was part of your argument for why timeless can’t be a thing, because you said that sequence denotes time. This is not necessarily true, but without a sense of time to regulate sequence, it can in fact be said to be ‘simultaneous’.
Because metaphysical laws are construct of our imaginations hence they are wrong if they oppose with physical laws because the physical laws are the result of observation of reality. Moreover I didn’t use the concept of cause and effect here. I however believe them to be true as metaphysical principles.
Actually, they are not. They are part of the reality God created and exist whether or not we see, recognize, or acknowledge them. We use our minds (rationality, imaginations) to DEFINE and EXPLAIN the concepts we see. Our minds do NOT cause or construct them.
 
The timelessness of God depends on the intellectual capacity to understand it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top