M
modestobruce
Guest
I just read about St. Imdelda Lambertini whose body lies in state in Bologna uncorrupted. Besides hers and St. Bernadette of Lourdes, how many bodies are in existence this way? I find this remarkable!
- Status
U
UnusFides
Guest
This is a remarkable thing about our Church, indeed. I find it just another proof of our God’s existence and a proof that the Catholic Church is the true Church.
Check out this link:
catholicapologetics.info/library/gallery/incorrupt.htm
Check out this link:
catholicapologetics.info/library/gallery/incorrupt.htm
J
Joseph_L_Varga
Guest
There are more than 250 incorrupt saints in the Catholic Church. Joan Carrol Cruz wrote a classic book entitled “The Incorruptibles”, in which she describes the stories of about 100 saints, with photographs and info regarding where their bodies are displayed. Reading that book I realized that almost every major city in Italy has incorrupt saints. The book is available at Catholic bookstores and probably at Amazon. There’s also another book by a well-known Catholic author (Bob and Penny Lord? I’m not sure). You posted a nice link, UnusFides. Here’s another link:
members.chello.nl/~l.de.bondt/IncorruptBodies.htm
The first incorrupt saint was probably Saint Cecilia, martyr and virgin of an ancient Roman noble family, during the persecution of Christians in Rome. Martyred in 177, her body was found in 1599, there’s a famous renaissance sculpture of her. Her fascinating and uplifting story illustrates well that in God’s plans, martyrdom is a special high honor (the “crown of martyrdom”). Shedding one’s blood for Christ is also somehow connected to the earthly victory of the Church and its ability to convert pagans, unbelievers, heretics, which never ceases to fascinate me, since by ordinary human logic martyrdom would seem as the ultimate failure and waste of human resources. Just enter “Saint Cecilia” in your search engine, plus see the links in this thread.
Another martyr was Saint Josaphat Kuncevyc, in Lithuania (today Ukraine), died in early 1600’s. This was after the Union of Brest, when many Eastern Orthodox returned to union with the Pope. St. Josaphat was shot with guns and fatally wounded by an axe blow to the head, by an EO mob. His body thrown into a river, was washed ashore and found incorrupt days later (enter Saint Josaphat into search engine to learn more).
St Josaphat’s story illustrates the supernatural nature of the incorruptibility of saints. There was no embalming or dry atmosphere to preserve his body, and it should have decomposed in the water.
St. Francis Xavier’s body was covered by a layer of quicklime after his death in India, so as to facilitate the body’s decomposition, since they planned to transfer his bones for burial in his home country (Spain? Portugal?). However, God had a different plan. His body stayed incorrupt and is still on display in Goa, India. This is another good example showing that incorruptibility defies the laws of nature.
Often when saints are exhumed, clothes and wood have decomposed and objects of iron rusted in the humid graves, but the bodies are intact. The bodies are also life-like and supple, there’s no rigidity (rigor mortis) observed. Often the bodies bleed when cut (blood coagulation did not occur).
These supernatural phenomena set apart “supernatural incorruptibility” from “natural incorruptibility”, which is sometimes observed with dead bodies. Natural incorruptibility means that in rare circumstances, dead bodies in a dry place fail to decompose and kind of dry up, becoming mummies. But such bodies are rigid (rigor mortis) and do not look life-like. Compare that to St. Bernadette Soubiros - she is beautiful, she really looks like she is only asleep, even though she’s been dead for almost 150 years. There’s also the “odor of sanctity” - a supernatural phenomenon often observed, when saints’ dead bodies exude a sweet and pleasant fragrance. Normally, dead bodies smell bad as soon as they start to decompose.
There are many incorrupt saints and beati who had apparitions of Jesus Christ or Holy Mary. Their incorruptibility is a sign of their great sanctity and great graces received from God. To St. Catherine Laboure, Our Lady appeared in 1830 at Rue de Bac (Paris), instructing her to have the “Miraculous Medal” made. Her body is at Rue de Bac. There’s St Bernadette Soubiros (Our Lady of Lourdes appeared to her in 1858), her body can be visited at the convent of Nevers, France. Blessed Jacinta, one of the 3 children to whom Our Lady appeared at Fatima, Portugal in 1917 - her body also remained incorrupt. St. Theresa of Avila, St. Mary Margaret Alacoque both had apparitions of Jesus Christ, the latter was instructed to spread the devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. Their bodies are also incorrupt.
Sometimes only the hand, the heart, or the tongue of a saint remains incorrupt, in a way that’s highly symbolic of his earthly ministry. St. Stephen the just King of Hungary, had his right hand preserved. I think (not sure) that St Anthony of Padova, a great preacher, had his tongue preserved after death.
The EO Churches also have incorrupt saints. They have been wounded by their schism with the Pope and by their heresy of rejecting St. Peter’s successor, but nevertheless God has apparently seen it fit to honor some EO who led very saintly lives by keeping their bodies incorrupt. St. John Maximovitch of Shanghai and San Francisco died in 1968, and is buried in the Russian EO Cathedral of San Francisco. He was born in Russia around the end of the 19th century, and after the Communist Revolution of Russia lived in China, France, and finally in the USA. His life shows remarkable similarities to that of Padre Pio in the sense that he lived a very strict ascetic life dedicated to prayer and mortifications of the body, and he received many charisms during his life already. He worked many miracles, healed sick people through prayer, could see into the souls of people and helped them during confession by revealing hidden sins etc. For the last 30 or 40 years of his life he never slept in a bed, only slept about 2-3 hours after midnight while sitting in a chair. He also fasted very much and very strictly. He was very dedicated to his pastoral duties and visited the sick, administering the Sacraments, often miraculously healing them by praying at their bedside. When he was exhumed, his clothes were rotten and decomposed, an iron crucifix buried with him was rusted, but the body was intact.
members.chello.nl/~l.de.bondt/IncorruptBodies.htm
The first incorrupt saint was probably Saint Cecilia, martyr and virgin of an ancient Roman noble family, during the persecution of Christians in Rome. Martyred in 177, her body was found in 1599, there’s a famous renaissance sculpture of her. Her fascinating and uplifting story illustrates well that in God’s plans, martyrdom is a special high honor (the “crown of martyrdom”). Shedding one’s blood for Christ is also somehow connected to the earthly victory of the Church and its ability to convert pagans, unbelievers, heretics, which never ceases to fascinate me, since by ordinary human logic martyrdom would seem as the ultimate failure and waste of human resources. Just enter “Saint Cecilia” in your search engine, plus see the links in this thread.
Another martyr was Saint Josaphat Kuncevyc, in Lithuania (today Ukraine), died in early 1600’s. This was after the Union of Brest, when many Eastern Orthodox returned to union with the Pope. St. Josaphat was shot with guns and fatally wounded by an axe blow to the head, by an EO mob. His body thrown into a river, was washed ashore and found incorrupt days later (enter Saint Josaphat into search engine to learn more).
St Josaphat’s story illustrates the supernatural nature of the incorruptibility of saints. There was no embalming or dry atmosphere to preserve his body, and it should have decomposed in the water.
St. Francis Xavier’s body was covered by a layer of quicklime after his death in India, so as to facilitate the body’s decomposition, since they planned to transfer his bones for burial in his home country (Spain? Portugal?). However, God had a different plan. His body stayed incorrupt and is still on display in Goa, India. This is another good example showing that incorruptibility defies the laws of nature.
Often when saints are exhumed, clothes and wood have decomposed and objects of iron rusted in the humid graves, but the bodies are intact. The bodies are also life-like and supple, there’s no rigidity (rigor mortis) observed. Often the bodies bleed when cut (blood coagulation did not occur).
These supernatural phenomena set apart “supernatural incorruptibility” from “natural incorruptibility”, which is sometimes observed with dead bodies. Natural incorruptibility means that in rare circumstances, dead bodies in a dry place fail to decompose and kind of dry up, becoming mummies. But such bodies are rigid (rigor mortis) and do not look life-like. Compare that to St. Bernadette Soubiros - she is beautiful, she really looks like she is only asleep, even though she’s been dead for almost 150 years. There’s also the “odor of sanctity” - a supernatural phenomenon often observed, when saints’ dead bodies exude a sweet and pleasant fragrance. Normally, dead bodies smell bad as soon as they start to decompose.
There are many incorrupt saints and beati who had apparitions of Jesus Christ or Holy Mary. Their incorruptibility is a sign of their great sanctity and great graces received from God. To St. Catherine Laboure, Our Lady appeared in 1830 at Rue de Bac (Paris), instructing her to have the “Miraculous Medal” made. Her body is at Rue de Bac. There’s St Bernadette Soubiros (Our Lady of Lourdes appeared to her in 1858), her body can be visited at the convent of Nevers, France. Blessed Jacinta, one of the 3 children to whom Our Lady appeared at Fatima, Portugal in 1917 - her body also remained incorrupt. St. Theresa of Avila, St. Mary Margaret Alacoque both had apparitions of Jesus Christ, the latter was instructed to spread the devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. Their bodies are also incorrupt.
Sometimes only the hand, the heart, or the tongue of a saint remains incorrupt, in a way that’s highly symbolic of his earthly ministry. St. Stephen the just King of Hungary, had his right hand preserved. I think (not sure) that St Anthony of Padova, a great preacher, had his tongue preserved after death.
The EO Churches also have incorrupt saints. They have been wounded by their schism with the Pope and by their heresy of rejecting St. Peter’s successor, but nevertheless God has apparently seen it fit to honor some EO who led very saintly lives by keeping their bodies incorrupt. St. John Maximovitch of Shanghai and San Francisco died in 1968, and is buried in the Russian EO Cathedral of San Francisco. He was born in Russia around the end of the 19th century, and after the Communist Revolution of Russia lived in China, France, and finally in the USA. His life shows remarkable similarities to that of Padre Pio in the sense that he lived a very strict ascetic life dedicated to prayer and mortifications of the body, and he received many charisms during his life already. He worked many miracles, healed sick people through prayer, could see into the souls of people and helped them during confession by revealing hidden sins etc. For the last 30 or 40 years of his life he never slept in a bed, only slept about 2-3 hours after midnight while sitting in a chair. He also fasted very much and very strictly. He was very dedicated to his pastoral duties and visited the sick, administering the Sacraments, often miraculously healing them by praying at their bedside. When he was exhumed, his clothes were rotten and decomposed, an iron crucifix buried with him was rusted, but the body was intact.
M
modestobruce
Guest
How do we know this phenomenon isn’t just a twist of nature, so to speak? Are there non-Christian bodies in a like state? How does a body become known as incorruptible? Eg, St. Bernadette…was she presumed for sainthood and never buried? After death, did they just leave her laying in her deathbed as is? Sorry for these “dumb” questions, but, I find this phenomenon just astounding! I’m 53 years-old and thought I’ve heard of everything; apparently not!
C
Cluny
Guest
St. John Maximovitch, Orthodox bishop of San Francisco, is incorrupt.
St. Necatrios of Aegina was incorrupt until, according to a vision of one of his spiritual children, he prayed that his his body might corrupt so his relics could be distributed.
St. Necatrios of Aegina was incorrupt until, according to a vision of one of his spiritual children, he prayed that his his body might corrupt so his relics could be distributed.
J
Joseph_L_Varga
Guest
Bruce, I also wish I knew more about incorruption. We could really use a coroner’s or forensic pathologist’s explanations to learn more about how do dead bodies decompose normally and how are the incorrupt saints’ cases different from this. This is what I learned by reading about the subject, not being an expert in the field: under normal conditions, bodies become rigid a few hours after death. Blood coagulates, and the dead body does not bleed when cut. I don’t know the underlying biochemical mechanisms for these phenomena, but this is what ordinarily happens to dead bodies. Therefore, when a saint’s incorrupt body is supple (not rigid, no rigor mortis) many years after his/her death, and bleeds fresh-looking (uncoagulated) blood when cut, that is an extraordinary phenomenon. Regarding the decomposition of the body, I know that the cells of a living body contain organelles called lysosomes, and lysosomes are filled with powerful enzymes called cathepsins. Cathepsins would attack and decompose the body by cutting up proteins into amino acids, had they not been trapped inside the lysosomes. After death, cathepsins do escape from lysosomes and decompose the body through breaking down (“hydrolysis”) of the proteins that make up the body. In essence, the body will decompose itself, without any need for bacteria, molds, or worms eating it. Ancient Egypt developed some methods where the internal organs of a body, which normally degrade first, are removed from the corpse, and the remainder of the body is embalmed and fails to decompose under such conditions. The Catholic Church will consider a body incorrupt if no special measures were taken to preserve the body (no embalming), and the body also stayed supple after death. It’s not like St Bernadette or any other saint were presumed to remain incorrupt and never buried. Typically, they have been buried just like any other dead people, in caskets placed in crypts or buried under the ground. Then, when they are exhumed years, dozens of years, or even hundreds of years after their death, the bodies are found incorrupt and supple. Under ordinary conditions, one would expect only the skeleton to remain intact years after death.
Whether such phenomena occur with non-Christians, again I only know a little about the subject. I’ve heard that yogis in Tibet or India sometimes die during meditation, and their bodies fail to decompose or start smelling for weeks after. But I don’t know about their bodies staying supple, lifelike and undecomposed for years and years. Btw, the smell of dead bodies is due to another biochemical phenomenon of decomposition, when strongly smelling amines called cadaverin and putrescein are formed from amino acids.
Again, bodies that become shriveled and mummified and do not look lifelike are sometimes found also, but the incorrupt bodies of saints are not dried out and shriveled, they do look lifelike, and stay supple. I mean, just look at the famous picture of St Bernadette Soubiros in her glass casket at the Convent of Nevers. It’s unbelievable - you would think she is still alive, she is only sleeping.
Cases where the rest of the body is decomposed, but only the hand, only the heart, or only the tongue is found intact, also point to a supernatural phenomenon. Again, we could use a specialist’s knowledge and experience on this: does it ever happen that a whole body decomposes, but the tongue stays intact? I am sure that the Catholic Church does have access to such coroner’s knowledge and professional opinion. Therefore, when they found that the whole body of a saint who was a great preacher was decomposed after death, but his tongue stayed intact, that must have been an unusual phenomenon based on previous experience and based on what is ordinarily observed when bodies are exhumed.
C
cecilia_b
Guest
As far as I know this miraculous phenomenon has only occurred to people who were devoutly Catholic, I’m not aware of this any Protestants. Check out this site, it’s pretty cool: overcomeproblems.com/incorruptables.htm
Also, I was wondering if anyone knows when Saint Cecilia’s body was last exhumed. For the most part I’ve heard that her body is incorrupt but there was one that said it turned to dust soon after it was moved from the catacombs.
God Bless
Cecilia
W
Wildkit
Guest
Is someone trying to tell me something?
P
paperwight66
Guest
Somebody mentioned the appearance of St. Bernadette’s body.
I’ think you’ll find that her face, and that of St. Padre Pio, have been covered with a light wax mask, as they were a little decomposed and unsightly - blackened and shrunk, i think.
Also, regarding natural explanations for the phenomenon. Last time we discussed this. I posted about the Anglican Cathedral here in Liverpool digging up some 18th or 19th Century graves to extend their car-park. Some of the coffins fell off the back of the lorry and split open, revealing incorrupt bodies. It turned out that they had been preserved by the underground chalybeate spring.
I;'m sure one or two of them were very saintly, but not all.
I’ think you’ll find that her face, and that of St. Padre Pio, have been covered with a light wax mask, as they were a little decomposed and unsightly - blackened and shrunk, i think.
Also, regarding natural explanations for the phenomenon. Last time we discussed this. I posted about the Anglican Cathedral here in Liverpool digging up some 18th or 19th Century graves to extend their car-park. Some of the coffins fell off the back of the lorry and split open, revealing incorrupt bodies. It turned out that they had been preserved by the underground chalybeate spring.
I;'m sure one or two of them were very saintly, but not all.
H
Hokomai
Guest
A miracle would be an incorrupt body that had been lying in the sea for a thousand years. Or one that had been subject to a serious attempt at lengthy cremation. Or with its severed limbs reattached. There are obvious, natural explanations (including wax masks) for all these alleged cases. if God wants to ‘prove’ something to us, by doing a miracle, why doesn’t he do something miraculous?
C
cecilia_b
Guest
I think it’s more like wax touch-ups than wax masks. The wax is just there to improve the body’s appearance, it doesn’t preserve the body.
Your right, it would be neat to fined and incorrupt body on the sea floor. I heard that when the English burned St Joan of Arc they weren’t able to burn her heart. I thought it was pretty interesting.
Enjoy your day!
Your right, it would be neat to fined and incorrupt body on the sea floor. I heard that when the English burned St Joan of Arc they weren’t able to burn her heart. I thought it was pretty interesting.
Enjoy your day!
C
Credo_in_Deum
Guest
He has, it’s called Fatima and the best (sarcasm) explanation (if that’s what you want to call it) was that 70,000 + people experienced a mass delusion which in itself would be a miracle.
B
Bigcat71
Guest
B
Bigcat71
Guest
St Bernadette was buried in1879. Due to the huge number of miraculous healings at Lourdes following her death, her body was disinterred on September 9,1909, in the presence of representatives appointed by the postulators of the cause, two doctors, and a sister of the community. They claimed that although the crucifix in her hand and the rosary had both oxidized, her body appeared “incorrupt” — preserved from decomposition. This was cited as one of the miracles to support her canonization. They washed and reclothed her body before burial in a new double casket. The Church exhumed the corpse a second time on 3 April 1919. A doctor who examined the body noted, “The body is practically mummified, covered with patches of mildew and quite a notable layer of salts, which appear to be calcium salts. … The skin has disappeared in some places, but it is still present on most parts of the body.”
In 1925, the church exhumed the body for a third time. On that occasion relics were taken, which were sent to Rome.
G
GloriousOrder
Guest
Poor, saintly woman… I wish they’d just leave her body alone. Our Lord never said that one of the criteria for saintliness was a perfectly-preserved body. This very idea doesn’t seem to trust in God much, since even the most horribly-rotted corpses will be raised perfectly on the final day anyway. Why would God preserve certain holy ones in bodily form if all will be perfected later?
H
Hokomai
Guest
In my humble opinion, if there is a God, and he does miraculously preserve bodies, he would do a much better job than this.
H
Hokomai
Guest
I am sure there is not reliable evidence that 70.000 people experienced this event, but I accept that there is evidence it was reported by some. Was it ever subjected to any sort of scientific investigation?
P
paperwight66
Guest
P
paperwight66
Guest
I’ve always been puzzled about these reports of so many seeing the 'event, and how convinced they were that something extraordinary had happened.
If it HAD been so many, where are the ‘fruits’? Surely so many people so fired up and so convinced should have had a longlasting effect on the church in Portugal? Surely it would have been like a Pentecost, with them going back to their towns and villages, full of zeal, inspiring others? And then these effects reaching worldwide, even taking into account the less-developed communications of the 19th century?
P
Poof
Guest
You have no idea~
I’m in no position to type long detailed posts at the moment due to the fact that it’s exam week but if you would do a quick search of Fatima on CAF, you’d come up with several threads. Read them, they contain a lot of information about the event. There’s a reason why Fatima is Catholicism’s most famous modern day miracle, it can’t be explained via science. This event has been heavily investigated and I can easily say that it’s a sign from God.
- Status