Incorruptible bodies: coverups? explanations? defences?

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Hi everyone,

This is a puzzle that has been confusing me. I know that the Catholic church teaches that many saints are uncorrupted…

protestanterrors.com/incorruptibles.htm

but how can this be? are there aby scientific explanations for this?

Has the church ever allowed tests to be done on the body?
How did they know which bodies to exhume? did they guess…why would they dig them up on the offchance?

why do they place a layer of wax over the features? do any of them turn to dust underneath this coating and the public are not informed?

are there any credible natural explanations for these occurances?

Thankyou

THX1138
 
You should read “The Incorruptibles” by Joan Carroll Cruz. I found it at my local library, but it’s also available on Amazon.com here.

I’m always surprised when people seem so amazed at miracles such as many of these. God is all powerful. Nothing is beyond His control. Miracles happen.
 
JoeSchmeau said:
You should read “The Incorruptibles” by Joan Carroll Cruz. I found it at my local library, but it’s also available on Amazon.com here.

I’m always surprised when people seem so amazed at miracles such as many of these. God is all powerful. Nothing is beyond His control. Miracles happen.
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Hi Joe,

I believe in miracles but there are just some things about this that puzzled me…

namely… how did they know to dig up the body in the first place? they couldn’t have known there was a miracle unless they dug it up for a reason

what is the pint of a miracle that is underground?.. what if they had never been found?

why do they coat them in wax?
how did the church discount natural phenomenon in this case…did they do tests etc?

and why isn’t it more publically known in the secular world?

actually I have quite a lot of questions about this lol… I should maybe get the book some time

thanks for the book though, I’ve really struggled to find anything about them…

S
 
Well, one time they probably dig up the body is after the Saint is canonized because they’ll dig it up for relics. This is usually quite a long time after they are dead.

Although, there may be other times in the canonization process that they dig it up the body, also.

JD
 
Johndigger said:
Well, one time they probably dig up the body is after the Saint is canonized because they’ll dig it up for relics. This is usually quite a long time after they are dead.

Although, there may be other times in the canonization process that they dig it up the body, also.

JD
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ok that explains that one. Thanks

I’ll have to get the book I reckon… and even that’s 3 years old lol… this must be just something people don’t talk about much.

S
 
Thx1138 said:
… this must be just something people don’t talk about much.

S
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I think it must just be one of those things that most Catholics accept on faith. 🤷 I’ve never really had a lot of curiosity about it, I just accept it. I do think it is fascinating though, and would love to get that book myself at some point.

~Liza
 
At the fall of Acre in 1291 the muslims left untouched the tomb of the Dominican Jordan of saxony in the church of St. Dominic after peering in to find his body uncorrupted. (“History of the Crusades” by Steve Runciman “The Kingdom of Acre”)
 
I’ve read the book, and it’s quite good. There’s a section on each saint.

Yes, tests have been done on the bodies, some very recently (in the 70’s on one IIRC). Some have been put under lye to help decompose them quicker, or left in damp tombs where the clothes, coffin, etc. have worn away but the body remains. Some are buried only in their Order’s habit in the ground and are still incorrupt.

The wax is put over them at a later date, both to help protect the relic and (I believe) for the comfort of those who are visiting (Usually wax is only put over the face). The Church is always up front about having put a wax mask on someone. “The Incorruptables” tells you which have them. Not all do, and the bodies are still in amazingly good condition.

Finally it is part of the cannonization process to dig up the body of the person up for cannonization. We don’t just dig till we get lucky!
 
I read somewhere that the body is preserved by a combination of a special oil that the body secretes after death and the clay-y soil in which the person is buried. It is truly a miraculous thing… stumps people all over the world.
 
The incorruption of the body is one of the signs of sanctity, but it is not the only sign. Especially with the modern practice of embalming, this is equivocal at best.

Thus, an examination of the holiness of life, writings, miracles, and such are also called for.
 
Thx
Hi everyone,
Has the church ever allowed tests to be done on the body?
How did they know which bodies to exhume? did they guess…why would they dig them up on the offchance?
Click to expand...
Yes the Church did allow independent scientist to test the bodies of the Incorrupt. St. Bernadette, who died in 1879, but was exhumed in 1906 and returned to the grave two more times, was tested extensively.
why do they place a layer of wax over the features?
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Not all incorruptibles have a layer of wax over their skin. In the earlier centuries, the bodies weren’t even placed into a glass coffin. Rather, they were left out in the open in the Chapels and Churches. However, in those days, the numbers of candles burning and the primitive heating systems, caused the skin to darken.

St. Bernadette’s exposed body parts have a wax coating, because her skin began to dry out.
do any of them turn to dust underneath this coating and the public are not informed?
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No, they don’t turn to dust.
are there any credible natural explanations for these occurances?
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There are no natural explanations for these occurrences. Its left to mystery.

Jim
 
Rawb said:
Finally it is part of the cannonization process to dig up the body of the person up for cannonization. We don’t just dig till we get lucky!
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lol lol, I didn’t realise that… I did wonder how they managed to strike lucky… why is it part of the process? to get relics? does the church think this is respectful to take parts of the body?

I ask as I was reading about a saint on amazon’s inside feature befre i bought the book… she’s talking about saint cecilia…and says that cardinal boronius ‘due to a holy reverence’ did not make any further examination of the body…is it a recent thing to cut peices of the body and organs off?
JimR-OCDS said:
Yes the Church did allow independent scientist to test the bodies of the Incorrupt. St. Bernadette, who died in 1879, but was exhumed in 1906 and returned to the grave two more times, was tested extensively.

Yeah I read the site someone posted with all of this evidence on… it’s this that intrigued me about it, you don;t ever hear about mracles within the church of england… well nothing after scripture.

Not all incorruptibles have a layer of wax over their skin. In the earlier centuries, the bodies weren’t even placed into a glass coffin. Rather, they were left out in the open in the Chapels and Churches. However, in those days, the numbers of candles burning and the primitive heating systems, caused the skin to darken.

I think that death kinda unnerves me and is quite sanitised in modern society… so it’s all a bit of a strange thing to think about older practices regarding this… I think I’d pass out even at an open casket!

No, they don’t turn to dust.

do any bodies that are incorrupt turn to dust after they are exhumed… I know there is info about this in the book… that some remain incorrupt no matter what while other don’t after they are removed from their place of rest… which might imply that the latters state is related to their place of rest while those that remain incorrupt are a different mystery maybe.

There are no natural explanations for these occurrences. Its left to mystery.

do catholics have to believe it? or can you believe it is scientific in explanation… I’m assuming it wouldn’t do to believe it was any kind of a fake as that would be implying some kind of cover up… but are you free to choose on this issue? or on miracles in the wider sense?
Jim
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thanks for your replies btw… it’s just a foreign concept to me. Have there been any instances of this happening to Non-Catholics??

THX1138
 
hey THx…

I’m Church of England too… I bought this book after reading this thread too… I think it must be an alien concept to us both 🙂

I got mine from the uk amazon with a book about eucharistic miracles with it, I haven’t heard of miracles within the CofE either.

Take care, S
 
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Some saints relics are what we call “myrrh gushers”, but the body does not have to be preserved for this to happen. Sometimes it happens from the bones.
 
Thx1138 said:
is it a recent thing to cut peices of the body and organs off?
THX1138
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No, it is not a recent thing, It has been done for centuries. Sometimes, a church would only have a small piece, like a finger-bone, of the Saint to whom they were dedicated.

Here is a link to “Relics and the Incorruptibles” which would have some more information for you.
fisheaters.com/relics.html

And here from the Catholic Answers Library:
catholic.com/library/Relics.asp
 
Thx1138 said:
Hi everyone,

This is a puzzle that has been confusing me. I know that the Catholic church teaches that many saints are uncorrupted…

protestanterrors.com/incorruptibles.htm

but how can this be? are there aby scientific explanations for this?

Has the church ever allowed tests to be done on the body?
How did they know which bodies to exhume? did they guess…why would they dig them up on the offchance?

why do they place a layer of wax over the features? do any of them turn to dust underneath this coating and the public are not informed?

are there any credible natural explanations for these occurances?

Thankyou

THX1138
Click to expand...
Wax is used on incorrupt bodies to prevent carbon buildup. St. Bernadette, for example, has a wax covering over her face and hands that are the exposed features.

Although her body is in a glass enclosure there is dust within. Flash camera picture-taking ignites dust and forms a blackened dust to accumulate and thereby discolor the body.

She l;ooks like she is asleep. I saw her body while on a pilgrammage to Lourdes. Her body is at the convent chapel where she died in Nevers, France; a good drive from Lourdes. It wakens one’s faith.
 
johnstown_johnn said:
Wax is used on incorrupt bodies to prevent carbon buildup. St. Bernadette, for examp[le, has a wax covering over her face and hands that are the exposed features.

Although her body is in a glass enclosure there is dust within. Flash camera picture-taking ignites dust and forms a blackened dust to accumulate and thereby discolor the body.

She l;ooks like she is asleep. I saw her body while on a pilgrammage to Lourdes. Her body is at the convent chapel where she died in Nevers, France; a good drive from Lourdes. It wakens one’s faith.
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I also went to Nevers and saw St.Bernadette. I attended Mass, right next to her coffin, in the chapel.

If I remember, Nevers is about a 2 hour drive out of Paris. Its in the Burgundy section of Paris and the drive takes you through the wine vineyards where of course, Burgundy wine is made.

From Lourdes, it must take well over a day.

We flew from Tarbes, which is just outside of Lourdes, to Paris, and then drove to Nevers the next day.
It was great!

Jim
[/quote]
 
JimR-OCDS said:
I also went to Nevers and saw St.Bernadette. I attended Mass, right next to her coffin, in the chapel.

If I remember, Nevers is about a 2 hour drive out of Paris. Its in the Burgundy section of Paris and the drive takes you through the wine vineyards where of course, Burgundy wine is made.

From Lourdes, it must take well over a day.

We flew from Tarbes, which is just outside of Lourdes, to Paris, and then drove to Nevers the next day.
It was great!

Jim
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An experience that stays with you all the days of your life.

I didn’t get to visit the incorrpt St. Catherine Laboure in Paris…some kind of faux pas in the tour.

Anyway, as I read, St. Catherine is under a chapel altar with a glass wall.
She still has her eyes open since they were unable to close them when she died.

Her eyes, I read, are just as blue and lifelike as when she lived. It’s now well over 125 years since her death.

Blessed Mother seems to put her signature on these holy ones as a verification that she did indeed appear and converse with them.
 
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