Incorruptible Bread?

[1sicht]

OK, so if I understand correctly, once the bread has been “confected,” it remains forever The Body, right? So, does it last forever? Or does it eventually grow brittle, crumble, or in humid climates even get moldy?

(No, this is not a troll question, I am genuinely puzzled by this issue. Clarifications keenly anticipated.)

 

[CaptainPicard]

OK, so if I understand correctly, once the bread has been “confected,” it remains forever The Body, right? So, does it last forever? Or does it eventually grow brittle, crumble, or in humid climates even get moldy?

(No, this is not a troll question, I am genuinely puzzled by this issue. Clarifications keenly anticipated.)

It’s a fair question. In transubstantiation, the substance of the bread and wine is changed to the body and blood of Christ – which is to say, the bread and wine become Christ’s body and blood, soul and divinity. The substance is what something actually is.

While the substance changes, the accidents remain the same. The accidents refer to the appearance of an object and also refer to all of its physical and chemical properties. For all outward appearances, whether viewed with the naked eye or with a microscope, the body and blood of Christ appears to be bread and wine.

Because the chemical properties of the Eucharist stay the same, it is still vulnerable to decay, just as bread and wine would be. Catholic teaching states that when the Eucharist is consumed or decayed to the point that the accidents of bread and wine no longer exist, it ceases to be the body and blood of Jesus.

 

[1sicht]

Good Cap’n Pic, thank you for your clear explanation. Now, as one uses a starter batch for Sour Dough Bread (), that question leads to more: (1) Modern physics has “hit” upon somewhat “spiritual” findings, so I’m wondering if this substance/accident concept (in the broadest sense) finds any sort of echo (even slight) in modern science (yet)? Not that I make science into a religion (scientism) by thinking that the former can explain all things spiritual, but I occasionally wonder if to some extent the molecular level “intersects” or “crosshatches” with the spiritual, resulting in molecular studies possibly at times “grazing” spiritual truth. (2) I have no trouble believing that His Spirit is omnipresent (since spirit is not bound by space/time/matter), but how can His body be simultaneously present: in heaven at the right of the Father, and in all the consecrated host(s), and in all the members of the Catholic Church?

 

[ljubim]

Although the above answer was perfect, I would like to add on a side note that the Eucharistic miracle of Siena has hosts where the accident refuses to rot after almost 300 years now. Look it up - Eucharistic miracles and other such miracles can really help us when our faith wavers. Such as the miracle of Bolsena/Orvieta: there is a large painting in the parish where the miracle occured, of the priest looking at the flesh and blood turned into real flesh and blood. If you look very closely you will see a small tear running down the priest’s nose, a tear of joy and utter love. Because he had been doubting about the Real Presence, and the Lord Himself cared enough to have this miracle during the priest’s own Mass, to assure him of His Love and His existence

 

[ljubim]

Good Cap’n Pic, thank you for your clear explanation. Now, as one uses a starter batch for Sour Dough Bread (), that question leads to more: (1) Modern physics has “hit” upon somewhat “spiritual” findings, so I’m wondering if this substance/accident concept (in the broadest sense) finds any sort of echo (even slight) in modern science (yet)? Not that I make science into a religion (scientism) by thinking that the former can explain all things spiritual, but I occasionally wonder if to some extent the molecular level “intersects” or “crosshatches” with the spiritual, resulting in molecular studies possibly at times “grazing” spiritual truth. (2) I have no trouble believing that His Spirit is omnipresent (since spirit is not bound by space/time/matter), but how can His body be simultaneously present: in heaven at the right of the Father, and in all the consecrated host(s), and in all the members of the Catholic Church?

You might have to get into theoretical stuff to find the kind of science you are looking for. Like string theory and the whole other-dimensions kind of stuff they promote on the History Channel

The answer to question two is: LOVE!! Think of the Big Bang theory, if this is how God created the Universe. He did things impossible: infinite amounts of energy, suddenly coming into existence out of nowhere and containing everything as we know it? Based on our modern grasp of physics, this is impossible, and yet the majority of scientists believe (key word: BELIEVE) in it because it’s all that makes sense. The deeper you get into science, the less it becomes a little worldview you can hold in your hands and explain your life by, and the more you understand just how precarious it is. When you first get into basic science, it seems so simple, so perfect, that we feel like we “get” how the world works. Then you get deeper and realize that it is just held up by theories, theories that get proven and disproven and re-written every day - this is the nature of experimental science. We observe, and we try our best to come up with an explanation. Often our best is enough, and often it is not. I’m not trying to belittle science, just saying that we cannot rely on an imperfect system to explain such a complex world. There is so much more to it than that!!

 

[CaptainPicard]

Good Cap’n Pic, thank you for your clear explanation. Now, as one uses a starter batch for Sour Dough Bread (), that question leads to more: (1) Modern physics has “hit” upon somewhat “spiritual” findings, so I’m wondering if this substance/accident concept (in the broadest sense) finds any sort of echo (even slight) in modern science (yet)? Not that I make science into a religion (scientism) by thinking that the former can explain all things spiritual, but I occasionally wonder if to some extent the molecular level “intersects” or “crosshatches” with the spiritual, resulting in molecular studies possibly at times “grazing” spiritual truth. (2) I have no trouble believing that His Spirit is omnipresent (since spirit is not bound by space/time/matter), but how can His body be simultaneously present: in heaven at the right of the Father, and in all the consecrated host(s), and in all the members of the Catholic Church?

No, I don’t know of any scientific crossover and I don’t really expect one. It’s my theory (and I suppose many Catholics would hold to this, though not all) that God would avoid such repeatable miraculous changes so that he wouldn’t “force” people into believing that He exists by giving absolutely irrefutable evidence. That’s more or less just speculation on my part.

As the previous poster stated, there are Eucharistic miracles which are exceptions to the rule. In those, the accidents are changed as well as the substance into His flesh. And, as stated, they don’t seem to want to decay. So that’s somewhat of a cross into the scientific, observable realm. It’s pretty interesting. But in keeping with my first paragraph principle, it’s not repeatable and not observable except by those who were there, so there’s always an “out” for those who want to disbelieve.

As far as number 2 goes, I know many people who’ve asked the same question. It’s never really bothered me, though. I usually answer that “He can do it because He’s God”. Remember, Jesus, resurrected, ascended into heaven and disappeared into thin air in plain view of the apostles at different points in the gospel. I figure if His body can do that, what can’t He do?

Interestingly enough, some Catholic saints (mere human beings) have even reported to “bilocate”. That’s when they are in two spots at once – by the power of God, of course. Padre Pio was reported to have done that, if I recall correctly. Very odd to be sure, but you’d have to figure that it’s possible with God.

 

[PaulDupre]

(2) I have no trouble believing that His Spirit is omnipresent (since spirit is not bound by space/time/matter), but how can His body be simultaneously present: in heaven at the right of the Father, and in all the consecrated host(s), and in all the members of the Catholic Church?

Because He is God, omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, and His body is a glorified, perfected body. I believe that if you and I reach heaven and partake of the divine nature, we will likewise be able to be present in multiple places at multiple times. What fun!!!

Paul