Increase of Atheists around the world, increase of crime any coincidence?

[Frankie65]

I suppose one example is, as irreligion increases, so does abortion. That is a crime. Similarly as irreligion increases, so does the push for assisted suicide. Also a crime.

These are crimes against God.

You don’t believe in God , you don’t think they are crimes.

 

[Frankie65]

Human beings evolved this behaviour long before there was belief in a God

Macro evolution is only a theory and a bad unscientific one at that.

The Christian (and judaism and Islam) belief is that the first people really did believe in God but their descendants went bad pretty quickly

 

[FiveLinden]

Macro evolution is only a theory and a bad unscientific one at that.

There is no such thing as ‘macroevolution’. I won’t explain further because it is off topic. But you surely can’t expect a non-believer to accept that human behaviour patterns do not result from natural processes?

 

[Frankie65]

1. Yes there is … or actually wait, you’re right. There isn’t
2. I don’t expect a non believer at this point in the game to do anything. Not my job to convince you. Read the Dies Irae. You can Google it. If you’re wondering why, well, you’re on a Catholic site.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

Some things that have increased in number in the past century:

• Automobiles
• Radios
• Coffee houses
• Boomerangs
• Solar panels
• Uno cards

Assuming the idea that crime has increased (which has not been demonstrated) then we’d need to do more than look at an increase of one item and compare it to the increase of another. The truck is showing that the two items are linked. Are atheists committing crimes at a greater rate than believers? Where is the evidence?

 

[upant]

Now, on the matter of there being a general increase in atheism and as we have seen there is a general decrease in criminal behaviour, are we now obliged to reverse the original conclusion in the op and grant that atheists are now the cause of better behaviour?

no, there is no standard. you haven’t define good yet

Well the world did not tell them that either.

so is it innate?

I don’t know why this idea is so prevalent among Christians. Basically atheists choose a moral code based on what they receive as being best not only for them but for their society.

until the next group comes along and changes it because what is the best for society today may not be considered the best for society tomorrow. child sacrifice was okay centries ago, then it was bad now it is okay again. is it bad or good? an atheist doesn’t know because there is no good or bad. it is all random.

Human beings evolved this behaviour long before there was belief in a God (at least by by reading). It is an evolved prt of what makes us human.

has there ever been a single standard before the one God?

Religion attempts to codify these behaviours but different religions come up with different codes again indicating the primacy of the behaviours encoded in our gene: for sharing, respect, nature of others and fierce defence when threatened.

religion is man-made. God gave us the moral code. it is embedded in everyone’s soul. that’s why even the atheist seeks something. the atheist just denies it is from God and tries to explain it in terms even he doesn’t really believe like good, bad, best for society, etc.

 

[tafan2]

In the US, crime has been trending down for quite some time. Violent crime has fallen 50% over the last 25 years.

 

[John10]

I do not think so, it might be harder for atheists to justify morality , however religious people can also do terrible things, just as any other free will person.

Having said that, I do believe religion does play a very important role in societies. I do not think it is a coincidence that both Hitler and Stalin hated religion and religious people.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

Now, on the matter of there being a general increase in atheism and as we have seen there is a general decrease in criminal behaviour, are we now obliged to reverse the original conclusion in the op and grant that atheists are now the cause of better behaviour?

no, there is no standard.

There is a standard. It’s the criminal rate. England suggested that the change in the rate was due to the increase in atheism.

He might be right. But as we have seen that the rate is going down, I wonder if you still agree with him.

 

[FiveLinden]

the atheist just denies it is from God and tries to explain it in terms even he doesn’t really believe like good, bad, best for society, etc.

Yes, I do use those categories. Why do Christians keep telling me what I believe?

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Evolutionary planning?

 

[HarryStotle]

Freddy:

To use the US of A as an example, only about 3% of the population are atheists and only about 0.2% of the prison population.

Here’s some other interesting statistic: although less than 3% of Americans are atheists, the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world, 716 people per 100,000 are in prison. The US has only 4.4% of the world’s population, but 22% of the world’s prisoners. About 7% of Europeans, on the other hand, are atheists, more than twice the percentage of the US, but only 102 people per 100,000 there are in prison, a much lower rate than in the US. So maybe crime goes down the more atheists there are.

Citation?

Incarceration rate could depend upon a number of factors. Willingness to incarcerate is one. Differences in prosecutable offences might be another. With “hate,” “hate speech,” and misgendering becoming more of a thing in the EU, who knows? Half the population there might be eligible for imprisonment. And with sanctuary cities and states willing to not prosecute illegals despite the heinousness of their crimes, the statistics might soon reverse.

Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics.”
- Mark Twain

 

[HarryStotle]

upant:

the atheist just denies it is from God and tries to explain it in terms even he doesn’t really believe like good, bad, best for society, etc.

Yes, I do use those categories. Why do Christians keep telling me what I believe?

So what is your basis for determining “good?” And on what grounds would you impose your notion of moral good upon others? Why your notion and not theirs?

 

[HarryStotle]

upant:

Freddy:

Now, on the matter of there being a general increase in atheism and as we have seen there is a general decrease in criminal behaviour, are we now obliged to reverse the original conclusion in the op and grant that atheists are now the cause of better behaviour?

no, there is no standard.

There is a standard. It’s the criminal rate. England suggested that the change in the rate was due to the increase in atheism.

He might be right. But as we have seen that the rate is going down, I wonder if you still agree with him.

The rate could be “going down” because of a general laxity of the laws and because of an increased unwillingness of police to engage with citizens unless it is absolutely necessary.

California recently removed theft/shoplifting under $100 as an arrestible offence.

 

[Spaten]

There is only ONE, relatively universal ethical code: “the two variants of the golden rule”. Of course sociopaths and psychopaths do not accept anything.

 

[Freddy]

Thorolfr:

Freddy:

To use the US of A as an example, only about 3% of the population are atheists and only about 0.2% of the prison population.

Here’s some other interesting statistic: although less than 3% of Americans are atheists, the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world, 716 people per 100,000 are in prison. The US has only 4.4% of the world’s population, but 22% of the world’s prisoners. About 7% of Europeans, on the other hand, are atheists, more than twice the percentage of the US, but only 102 people per 100,000 there are in prison, a much lower rate than in the US. So maybe crime goes down the more atheists there are.

Incarceration rate could depend upon a number of factors.

Indeed. But they’d be applicable to atheists and Christians alike. If Christians are oversubscribed then so are atheists. Nobody is sayin: ‘Gee, look at all tbe believers in jail’. What’s being pointed out is the different rates of incarceration between believers and atheists. The overall rate wouln’t change that.

 

[HarryStotle]

There is only ONE, relatively universal ethical code: “the two variants of the golden rule”. Of course sociopaths and psychopaths do not accept anything.

Both of which presume an acceptance of good moral agency. Neither provide the ground for which these can be imposed upon those in society would not accept them as morally imperative.

So, the question remains: On what grounds is objective morality determined and made imperative for all?

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

Thorolfr:

Freddy:

To use the US of A as an example, only about 3% of the population are atheists and only about 0.2% of the prison population.

Here’s some other interesting statistic: although less than 3% of Americans are atheists, the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world, 716 people per 100,000 are in prison. The US has only 4.4% of the world’s population, but 22% of the world’s prisoners. About 7% of Europeans, on the other hand, are atheists, more than twice the percentage of the US, but only 102 people per 100,000 there are in prison, a much lower rate than in the US. So maybe crime goes down the more atheists there are.

Incarceration rate could depend upon a number of factors.

Indeed. But they’d be applicable to atheists and Christians alike. If Christians are oversubscribed then so are atheists. Nobody is sayin: ‘Gee, look at all tbe believers in jail’. What’s being pointed out is the different rates of incarceration between believers and atheists. The overall rate wouln’t change that.

Not my point.

The comparison @Thorolfr made concerns the difference between American and European incarceration rates to uphold his point regarding atheist incarceration rates. You seem to have missed the point.

What if the reason the US has a higher incarceration rate is because police are far more likely to incarcerate? Further suppose that on equal terms – if the EU incarcerated for the same crimes/infractions as the US – the rate in the EU turned out to be far higher than the US. The revised difference between the atheist rates of US (4.4%) and EU (7%) might not support his conclusion that a higher proportion of atheists entail lower crime rates. Again, it all depends upon who is being incarcerated and for what.

 

[Freddy]

FiveLinden:

upant:

the atheist just denies it is from God and tries to explain it in terms even he doesn’t really believe like good, bad, best for society, etc.

Yes, I do use those categories. Why do Christians keep telling me what I believe?

So what is your basis for determining “good?” And on what grounds would you impose your notion of moral good upon others? Why your notion and not theirs?

Matthew 7:12. I’m sure you’d agree that it’s an excellent maxim under which we could all live. All the things upon which we would disagree (and there aren’t that many) are generally religious ideas about sex.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

HarryStotle:

Thorolfr:

Freddy:

To use the US of A as an example, only about 3% of the population are atheists and only about 0.2% of the prison population.

Here’s some other interesting statistic: although less than 3% of Americans are atheists, the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world, 716 people per 100,000 are in prison. The US has only 4.4% of the world’s population, but 22% of the world’s prisoners. About 7% of Europeans, on the other hand, are atheists, more than twice the percentage of the US, but only 102 people per 100,000 there are in prison, a much lower rate than in the US. So maybe crime goes down the more atheists there are.

Incarceration rate could depend upon a number of factors.

Indeed. But they’d be applicable to atheists and Christians alike. If Christians are oversubscribed then so are atheists. Nobody is sayin: ‘Gee, look at all tbe believers in jail’. What’s being pointed out is the different rates of incarceration between believers and atheists. The overall rate wouln’t change that.

Not my point.

The comparison @Thorolfr made concerns the difference between American and European incarceration rates to uphold his point regarding atheists and believers. You seem to have missed the point.

I was just talking about American rates. I’m more than happy for you to accept Thorolfr’s European rates as well. Which indicate that overall incarceration rates drop the less religious is the country.

This thread appears to be turning out in a way that the op probably didn’t expect.