Independent Catholic churches??

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Sepharad

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I just did a quick Google to find the websites of some liberal Catholic groups for someone in another thread, when I found this:

concentric.net/~cosmas/independent_catholic_churc.htm

Now, I’ve studied various religions, but did not know that there were this many offshoots from the Catholic church! I’d thought the Reformation was it, and that was long ago.

What are these churches, anyone know?
 
There are many groups, either ultra-traditionalist and ultra-liberal, who call themselves Catholic but in schism with the Church.

For example, a common theme among separated ultra-traditionalists is that the last few popes are not valid popes. They also reject the Second Vatican Council. This is broadly known as sedevacantist.

They generally hold a very narrow of Church doctrines and moral teachings.

These people often consider themselves Catholic, but will not submit to the authority of the Church. Exceedingly few have actually been excommunicated.

On the other extreme, ultra-liberal groups generally support abortion, gay marriage, and/or female priestesses.

They have an exceedingly borad new of Church teachings and doctrines and desire to change them.

Many individuals in these groups have been excommunicated, either formally or latae sentie (by the very act). For example participating in a procured abortion or participating in an attempt to ordain a woman priest or deacon earns an automatic excommunication.

What these two groups have in common is a refusal to submit to legitimate authority and impose their own personal interpretation to Church teachings.

Both groups create serious wounds for the Church and confusion among the faithful. Both groups are a source of scandal.
 
I already knew about the sedevacantists (on the right), and the pro-abortionists and gays (on the left).

What I didn’t know about was all the others on that list!
 
Sepharad said:
I already knew about the sedevacantists (on the right), and the pro-abortionists and gays (on the left).

What I didn’t know about was all the others on that list!
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The really sad and scandalous thing is what the lists says right at the top. “Selected Jurisdictions & Religious Orders”. This list is far is far from complete. There are dozens of groups and single-church movements. It is very sad.

Many of the groups left off have names that are only slightly different than the names of the groups on this list.

For example, they left off the Society of St. Pius V which is even more “traditionalist” that the Society of St. Pius X.

Others missing are the American Catholic Church, the Canadian Catholic Church, Catholic Church of Canada… I think you get the idea.

It is all so very sad. 😦

Personally, I think it is a reflection of lack of humility on the part of the founders and followers.
 
Sepharad said:
I already knew about the sedevacantists (on the right), and the pro-abortionists and gays (on the left).

What I didn’t know about was all the others on that list!
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I assure you that’s only a partial list. I’m not certain anyone has been able to list all the little schismatic, heretical and apostate clumps floating about and calling themselves Catholic or styling themselves after some religious community of the Church.

In a majority of cases, there are no valid ordinations and usually no true claim to any apostolic succession.

Many are only “internet churches” consisting of one or two individuals.

Whether ultra on either side, they have a tendency to split apart. They multiply by division. That seems appropriate, since they originate from some division from the Church which Christ established.

They would be risible for their general wackiness if it were not for the great evils to which they give rise. They have generally confused playing dress up with true religious faith.
 
cameron_lansing said:
I assure you that’s only a partial list. I’m not certain anyone has been able to list all the little schismatic, heretical and apostate clumps floating about and calling themselves Catholic or styling themselves after some religious community of the Church.

In a majority of cases, there are no valid ordinations and usually no true claim to any apostolic succession.

Many are only “internet churches” consisting of one or two individuals.

Whether ultra on either side, they have a tendency to split apart. They multiply by division. That seems appropriate, since they originate from some division from the Church which Christ established.

They would be risible for their general wackiness if it were not for the great evils to which they give rise. They have generally confused playing dress up with true religious faith.
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One I did not see on that list (though I admit I didn’t look hard) was something called (I think) "Polish National Catholic Church.

Are you familiar with that? When I was growing up, there was one not far from us, and I always wondered what they were all about.
 
Sepharad said:
One I did not see on that list (though I admit I didn’t look hard) was something called (I think) "Polish National Catholic Church.

Are you familiar with that? When I was growing up, there was one not far from us, and I always wondered what they were all about.
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That one’s quite legit, so to speak, although not in communion with us and there is hope for that.

See usccb.org/comm/archives/2008/08-081.shtml.
 
cameron_lansing said:
That one’s quite legit, so to speak, although not in communion with us and there is hope for that.

See usccb.org/comm/archives/2008/08-081.shtml.
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After I posted that query, I Googled them and found this:

pncc.org

This fascinates and excites me, as a student of world religions. I had not even realized all these schismatic groups existed!

I wonder what Mass they use? The Tridentine, but in Polish? I’d assume they use whatever Mass was in vogue at the time they split (evidently, from their website, it looks like they split over the doctrine of Papal infallibility in 1870).
 
Currently, the generally agreed upon number is aoubt 33,000 protestant groups. Schismatic churches, along with denominations founded in the Reformation era, and the new crop of “Non-Denominational” churches would be included in that number.

You may be interested to know that within the Catholic Church, there are many movements, societies orders, Rites and churches. These are all legitimate and in full communion with the Catholic Church. This post summarizes them quite well.

The authentic Catholic Church is much more broad than many people at first realize.
 
rpp said:
This anti-Catholic poster only helps to prove my point. Division within Christianity is a grave scandal to our Lord.
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The topic is Independent Catholic churches and I provided a link. I try to be helpful.
 
PaulDupre said:
The vast majority of those are not Catholic schisms. Most are Anglican, Orthodox or Episcopal.

Still, that list is way too long. 😦
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I cannot really tell in some cases. When Catholic and Orthodox are used in the same title…it makes me uncertain.
 
I think the process is much more common and complex than it is getting credit for. People learn about a set of beliefs and accept or reject them in whole or in part. I think you would find that many people take parts of one group and parts of another to form the new. That most churches officially broke from Luther et al. does not mean they where not influenced by the CC in their ideas.

Long story short there are always disagreements and people picking and choosing what they like. That people are forming CC style groups more than in the past simply shows a return of valuing some CC practices vs others.
 
Sepharad said:
I just did a quick Google to find the websites of some liberal Catholic groups for someone in another thread, when I found this:

concentric.net/~cosmas/independent_catholic_churc.htm

Now, I’ve studied various religions, but did not know that there were this many offshoots from the Catholic church! I’d thought the Reformation was it, and that was long ago.

What are these churches, anyone know?
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Actually, it might be groups of people among others all going to the same church, so it may not be an independant Church per se… not yet! Maybe some of these groups will go separate ways from the rest of us Catholics (physically) or they will ask US (if they are the bigger group) to look for another church… I Don’t know!
Who they are? People who feel the Church is too “conservative” and “not up with the times”, they would go for women being ordained, approving of same-sex unions being officialized in a church as “marriage”, some innovations in the liturgical rubrics not in accordance with the norms of the Vatican. (In some cases, there is a possibility that it be accepted, but in other cases it’s a clear no-no!) I don’t know if the picture is clear enough, but… voilà!
 
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