India's Christians Suffer and Die While the World Watches

[peregrinus_WA]

From Catholic On-line

India’s Christians Suffer and Die While the World Watches

“Hindu intolerance and fanaticism are growing, and acts of violence against Christians are on the rise. To the silence and disinterest of the world.”
ROMA (Chiesa) – On Friday, August 29, 2008 the 25,000 Catholic schools in India closed their doors for the entire day. The Indian Catholic Church has called for a day of prayer and fasting for the first Sunday in September, with peaceful processions all over the country.

The reason is the new wave of violence that has struck the Christians in the state of Orissa. Every day, there is news of killing, wounding, rape, assaults against churches, convents, schools, orphanages, villages, carried out by Hindu fanatics. Thousands of people have had to abandon their homes and flee to the forests.

The silence is deafening, but what do you expect from a world that hates Christianity (especially Catholicism ).

 

[Trishie]

Father, please hear and grant the anguished prayers of our Catholic and Christian brothers and sisters in India.
Please raise world awareness, and bring about protest and action that halts this Hindu persecution of Your people.
Father, we beg this of You, in the name of Jesus who loves them.

 

[Pinkyyy]

Okay, not that I don’t see your point, but you are only giving one side (this doesn’t surprise me because we as a people only want to see our own side). In Orissa, some christians were responsible for the MURDER of Swami Laxanananda Saraswati. Swami is the hindu version of a priest, and this man was a a helpless 80 year old elderly man. They shot them multiple times because the Hindu leader made some remarks that he was tired of Christians and other religions trying to come and turn hindus from their religion (it’s a predominately hindu area there) and some christians (catholics) decided to just take the leader out - and they killed others as well.

Don’t tell me that when mormons or muslims come around trying to convert you and your family, this does not make you mad as well - you would say something too.

This sparked outrage from extreme hindus which causes riots. Yes, catholics too were killed. In india, things can escalate fast, and these catholics had no reason to kill this man except for they didn’t like his words and they responded with violence.

The hindus have also responded very violently killing a nun, a paralized man, and countless others, and destoying churches. They also are forcing christians back into hinduism - and these christians have been around for a very long time, so it’s not like they converted last week to the RCC. This really is my pet peve because hindus worship cows and all forms of life, yet tick them off and believe me, you better watch out - they have no regard for human life - the hindus take better care of animals there than humans.

Both sides need to take responsibility for their actions. It’s good that the Catholic leaders there have apologized for the actions of these killers that belong to their religion. Now the hindus have to stop this atrocious behavior - they have responded much worse and the goverenment is doing nothing to stop any of it. I hope they can get this all calmed down and soon.

Not only do we need to pray for the christians there, but also for the families of the hindu leaders who were gunned down in cold blood.

 

[seekerz]

Okay, not that I don’t see your point, but you are only giving one side (this doesn’t surprise me because we as a people only want to see our own side). In Orissa, some christians were responsible for the MURDER of Swami Laxanananda Saraswati. Swami is the hindu version of a priest, and this man was a a helpless 80 year old elderly man. They shot them multiple times because the Hindu leader made some remarks that he was tired of Christians and other religions trying to come and turn hindus from their religion (it’s a predominately hindu area there) and some christians (catholics) decided to just take the leader out - and they killed others as well…

I tend to agree that there are two sides to most stories, there is absolutely no justification for the atrocities carried out.

The information I have read (in more than one place, actually) is that police believe the Hindu leader was murdered by Maoist rebels.

Even if he was killed by Catholics, that is no justification for the violence that has been allowed. If someone commits murder, find him and bring him to justice, don’t go out and kill his neighbors, coworkers or people riding the train to work with him! There is no excuse for that kind of behavior. Besides, I’ve also read that this is not the first time Christians there have been targeted by Hindu extremists.

What I’d like to know is whether the central government has control over Orissa. With that level of violence and some cops reported to be complicit or at least complacent, where was the army? Apologies by heads of state who have the power to prevent or stop the acts apologized for, are totally meaningless.

If you want to discuss Christian-Hindu dynamics in India do that, but out of respect for the dead and injured, kindly do not blame the victims.

 

[Pinkyyy]

I tend to agree that there are two sides to most stories, there is absolutely no justification for the atrocities carried out.

The information I have read (in more than one place, actually) is that police believe the Hindu leader was murdered by Maoist rebels.

Even if he was killed by Catholics, that is no justification for the violence that has been allowed. If someone commits murder, find him and bring him to justice, don’t go out and kill his neighbors, coworkers or people riding the train to work with him! There is no excuse for that kind of behavior. Besides, I’ve also read that this is not the first time Christians there have been targeted by Hindu extremists.

What I’d like to know is whether the central government has control over Orissa. With that level of violence and some cops reported to be complicit or at least complacent, where was the army? Apologies by heads of state who have the power to prevent or stop the acts apologized for, are totally meaningless.

If you want to discuss Christian-Hindu dynamics in India do that, but out of respect for the dead and injured, kindly do not blame the victims.

I am not blaming the victims - in fact I said what the hindus are doing is very wrong. But I also know of the situation - my family lives in the next state in India and I do know what is going on - I watch it on our satalite news show almost every night as well. It almost sounds like the feeling is (especially on the catholic news sites) that the hindus killed so many while the christian “rebels” killed so few so the hindu’s are wrong. There was no justification to kill the swami - those chrisitans who killed him are also guilty. The victims on both sides are all victims and I said nothing of blaming them - it’s the guilt of both sides. Yes the Hindu’s are taking it too far - in their minds they feel justified because they are sick of people trying to convert their people to other religions (as I said, we too would be upset with Muslims moving into our neighborhoods and actively recruiting people to turn muslim). They are justified in being mad (not violence though) - I mean an 80 year old and his 4 aids were brutaly killed - they didn’t do anything wrong but speak out for their religion. Their deaths mean something too.

It is not the fault of the swami that there has been clashes between Christians and Hindus before. The hindu’s are not the only ones causing trouble. As much as it seems like it to us being christians, but you can’t say “the hindu’s” (meaning as a whole) are responsible for the violence but only some rebels are responsible for the killing of Swami and his 4 aids. Only the ones participating are guilty - not the religions as a whole.

I liked the Pope’s statment on it - he called for peace and for prayers for the christian victims and for the senseless death of the swami (and his 4 aids).

As for the rebels, they have been acused, but they have also said they did not have anything to do with it. I dont’ trust what the police say - really theirs is a corrupt governement (especially in Orissa) and they will say anything.

The central government does and does not have control over orissa - they are not being as agressive as they should be, but even if they were, this is a hard situation to get under control.

 

[seekerz]

I am not blaming the victims - in fact I said what the hindus are doing is very wrong. But I also know of the situation - my family lives in the next state in India and I do know what is going on - I watch it on our satalite news show almost every night as well. It almost sounds like the feeling is (especially on the catholic news sites) that the hindus killed so many while the christian “rebels” killed so few so the hindu’s are wrong. There was no justification to kill the swami - those chrisitans who killed him are also guilty. The victims on both sides are all victims and I said nothing of blaming them - it’s the guilt of both sides. Yes the Hindu’s are taking it too far - in their minds they feel justified because they are sick of people trying to convert their people to other religions (as I said, we too would be upset with Muslims moving into our neighborhoods and actively recruiting people to turn muslim). They are justified in being mad (not violence though) - I mean an 80 year old and his 4 aids were brutaly killed - they didn’t do anything wrong but speak out for their religion. Their deaths mean something too.

It is not the fault of the swami that there has been clashes between Christians and Hindus before. The hindu’s are not the only ones causing trouble. As much as it seems like it to us being christians, but you can’t say “the hindu’s” (meaning as a whole) are responsible for the violence but only some rebels are responsible for the killing of Swami and his 4 aids. Only the ones participating are guilty - not the religions as a whole.

I liked the Pope’s statment on it - he called for peace and for prayers for the christian victims and for the senseless death of the swami (and his 4 aids).

As for the rebels, they have been acused, but they have also said they did not have anything to do with it. I dont’ trust what the police say - really theirs is a corrupt governement (especially in Orissa) and they will say anything.

The central government does and does not have control over orissa - they are not being as agressive as they should be, but even if they were, this is a hard situation to get under control.

You were attempting to explain why Hindus are burning, raping and terrorizing Christians in Orissa. I was simply stating that nothing on earth can explain or justify this kind of behavior.

India has police, an army and a justice system. Whether the Swami was killed by Maoists or Christians or aliens from Mars, those resources should be used to bring his killers to justice.

If someone kills (God forbid) a cardinal or even the Pope, that could not in any way begin to explain hordes of Christians running amok in the streets killing innocent people. Are we the only religion where insults to our faith or violence against our leaders, does not lead to mass lynchings?

Are the Christians in Orissa or in the rest of India, banding together to take revenge for attacks on their priests and nuns? If they are not, what does that say about the real reason for so many conversions?

In any case, why should Hindus get mad if people want to stop being classified as the sediment of humanity and take the offer of dignity in Christ? It’s their decision to convert, and nobody else’s business unless the missionaries are holding guns to their heads.

If the central government has difficulty controlling street riots, how do they hope to defend their country’s borders? I say shame on the land of Mahatma Ghandi for allowing this violence to continue for as long as it did!

 

[Pinkyyy]

You were attempting to explain why Hindus are burning, raping and terrorizing Christians in Orissa. I was simply stating that nothing on earth can explain or justify this kind of behavior.

India has police, an army and a justice system. Whether the Swami was killed by Maoists or Christians or aliens from Mars, those resources should be used to bring his killers to justice.

If someone kills (God forbid) a cardinal or even the Pope, that could not in any way begin to explain hordes of Christians running amok in the streets killing innocent people. Are we the only religion where insults to our faith or violence against our leaders, does not lead to mass lynchings?

Are the Christians in Orissa or in the rest of India, banding together to take revenge for attacks on their priests and nuns? If they are not, what does that say about the real reason for so many conversions?

In any case, why should Hindus get mad if people want to stop being classified as the sediment of humanity and take the offer of dignity in Christ? It’s their decision to convert, and nobody else’s business unless the missionaries are holding guns to their heads.

If the central government has difficulty controlling street riots, how do they hope to defend their country’s borders? I say shame on the land of Mahatma Ghandi for allowing this violence to continue for as long as it did!

And nothing can be done to justify what these particular christians(or whoever) did to these 5 innocent hindus. You can’t blame all hindus for the ones doing these just because we are christian and you identify with them the most (I mean you are insulting Hindus and calling them the sediment of humanity, so it’s obvious where you’re coming from and how little respect there is for other religions).

We agree though on this…the killings of those 5 doesn’t justify it, but I haven’t heard anyone say they should be praying for these hindu victims and their families either - just the catholics (they are not the only victims here). Just because the hindus are not reacting right doesn’t mean those innocent victims don’t deserve our thoughts either.

The christians are running b/c of the overwhelming number of hindus right now that are against them - the christians HAVE actually have been violent in the past, in fact most of todays christians there are decendants of hindus who were raped and tortured (and yes had missionaries putting guns to their heads) among other things to make them convert to catholicism.

Of course people who don’t know much about India would condem the government. It is a different land and yes there is violence there (there’s violence here too - infact everythere). There are a billion people and it is kind of hard to control everyone - or course there is going to be clashes when you have 3 religions all of who are very committed to their faith and they are killing eachother’s leaders.

The hindus are not right - the christians are not right - everyone is wrong and it WILL take time for the police to get control of that many people who are very angry in that area. Once that happens and the people on both sides are taken into custody that will happen.

So, my thing is open your heart and pray for the Hindu victims too - it’s the christian thing to do.

 

[seekerz]

And nothing can be done to justify what these particular christians(or whoever) did to these 5 innocent hindus. You can’t blame all hindus for the ones doing these just because we are christian and you identify with them the most (I mean you are insulting Hindus and calling them the sediment of humanity, so it’s obvious where you’re coming from and how little respect there is for other religions).

We agree though on this…the killings of those 5 doesn’t justify it, but I haven’t heard anyone say they should be praying for these hindu victims and their families either - just the catholics (they are not the only victims here). Just because the hindus are not reacting right doesn’t mean those innocent victims don’t deserve our thoughts either.

The christians are running b/c of the overwhelming number of hindus right now that are against them - the christians HAVE actually have been violent in the past, in fact most of todays christians there are decendants of hindus who were raped and tortured (and yes had missionaries putting guns to their heads) among other things to make them convert to catholicism.

Of course people who don’t know much about India would condem the government. It is a different land and yes there is violence there (there’s violence here too - infact everythere). There are a billion people and it is kind of hard to control everyone - or course there is going to be clashes when you have 3 religions all of who are very committed to their faith and they are killing eachother’s leaders.

The hindus are not right - the christians are not right - everyone is wrong and it WILL take time for the police to get control of that many people who are very angry in that area. Once that happens and the people on both sides are taken into custody that will happen.

So, my thing is open your heart and pray for the Hindu victims too - it’s the christian thing to do.

I apologize if my “sediment of humanity” quote was taken out of context. Since you seem to have some understanding of the issues here, I thought you would have been aware that many, if not most, of the Hindus whose conversion is causing such outrage, are from the lowest castes and viewed as inferior to other Hindus. That religious (and social) classification of inferiority is what I was referring to.

If you’ve ever read my posts, you would know that the equality and dignity of all human beings is an issue very dear to my heart. I was simply saying that these people should not be faulted for grabbing at the chance (offered by Christianity) to be accorded equal status with the rest of humanity.

Sorry if it read any other way…

As for opening my heart to pray for the Hindus, I have no problem with that - I pray for the whole world. However, I do not accept that both sides are equally to blame. A heinous crime happened, deal with it through the justice system.

Nothing (present day or historical) justifies days of mass lynchings (regardless of the victims’ religions) and remaining impotent in the face of this is an outrage and a shame. I will never be convinced otherwise.