Indicators of strong Parish

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My journey to Rome has been limited to studies in Scripture, history, and books. I’m now ready to find a Parish that agrees with the Magisterium. I know the traditional answer is just to attend the closest parish, and if I were single I’d probably do just that. But for my family’s sake, I’d like to find a parish that prides itself on its orthodoxy.

What are some external indicators that I can look for?
If I can meet with someone, who should I speak with, and what questions should I ask?

Here are a few external indicators that were suggested to me:
  1. Reading material near entrance includes more orthodox magazines (The Catholic Answer, Envoy, This Rock, New Oxford Review, Lay Witness, Our Sunday Visitor, or National Catholic Register) … Resources like Commonweal, National Catholic Reporter, or America may be a bad sign if not balanced by the more orthodox.
  2. Eucharistic adoration may be a good sign (but sometimes simply implies the community is immigrant)
Questions to Ask:
  1. What do you think of _____? (JPII, BXVI, Scott Hahn, Humanae Vitae, Evangelium Vitae)
What else do you suggest? What are the best indicators of a solid parish? Also, are there any indicators of a rebellious parish?

If you have any specific parish recommendations for me, I’m living a few minutes south of San Francisco, CA
 
My journey to Rome has been limited to studies in Scripture, history, and books. I’m now ready to find a Parish that agrees with the Magisterium. I know the traditional answer is just to attend the closest parish, and if I were single I’d probably do just that. But for my family’s sake, I’d like to find a parish that prides itself on its orthodoxy.

What are some external indicators that I can look for?
If I can meet with someone, who should I speak with, and what questions should I ask?

Here are a few external indicators that were suggested to me:
  1. Reading material near entrance includes more orthodox magazines (The Catholic Answer, Envoy, This Rock, New Oxford Review, Lay Witness, Our Sunday Visitor, or National Catholic Register) … Resources like Commonweal, National Catholic Reporter, or America may be a bad sign if not balanced by the more orthodox.
  2. Eucharistic adoration may be a good sign (but sometimes simply implies the community is immigrant)
Questions to Ask:
  1. What do you think of _____? (JPII, BXVI, Scott Hahn, Humanae Vitae, Evangelium Vitae)
What else do you suggest? What are the best indicators of a solid parish? Also, are there any indicators of a rebellious parish?

If you have any specific parish recommendations for me, I’m living a few minutes south of San Francisco, CA
The Liturgy is the number one sign, in my opinion. Attend a Mass at the parish. If it is reverant, chances are you have a good parish. If it is irreverant or if there are liturgical abuses or anything goofy, chances are it is not a good parish.

This doesn’t mean the priests are bad. I happen to know one parish where the Liturgy is still not up to snuff although the priests are good. Both are new and they are slowly trying to bring the Liturgy around to where it ought to be.

However, even in this case, the parish as a whole is not yet what you’re looking for, in all liklihood. It hopefully will be in the future, but it isn’t yet.

So the Liturgy is a good starting point, in my opinion.
 
Thanks Lazerlike42. Are there specifics in the Liturgy that I should watch out for? I haven’t attended a mass yet, and I’m not sure I’ll catch the subtleties you allude.
 
…I haven’t attended a mass yet, and I’m not sure I’ll catch the subtleties you allude.
Well, for starters, please attend Mass. Observe what you witness. Does the priest believe in the real presense? You will know if he does by the reverence he shows when he celebrates. Does the laity believe in the real presense? Again - observe first hand.

Pay attention to the homilies of the priests. Do they convey consistent orthodox Catholic messages? Look at the weekly bullitin. What do they promote? Do they offer Eucharistic adoration to help spirituality or do they offer yoga classes to enhance spirituality? Look for clues that will help you in your discernment.
 
Thanks Lazerlike42. Are there specifics in the Liturgy that I should watch out for? I haven’t attended a mass yet, and I’m not sure I’ll catch the subtleties you allude.
I’m going to assume you’ll be attending an Ordinary Form Mass, because that’s what the vast majority of them are.

For starters, is there anything that very clearly does not seem like the sort of thing that belongs in church? For example, people dressed up like clowns or in some other sort of costume? Is there dancing going on? If there is anything that seems really goofy, that’s not the parish for you.

Once the Mass starts, does the priest dress in all of the vestments? Basically what you are looking for is that the priest looks something like this, rather than something like this. In the second picture the priest is not wearing the chasuble, which is that overcoat sortof thing. He shouldn’t just be wearing the stole - the thing that hangs over the shoulders.

Do the priest and others involved walk respectfully down the aisle at the beginning of the Mass, carrying a cross and perhaps a book, or do they rush in, or act weird in some way? The priest might be singing, which is ok.

Does the priest kiss the altar? He should.

Does the priest or a deacon begin the Mass with a long, drawn out message about the day that almost sounds like a mini-sermon? He really shouldn’t. Many good priests at good parishes will certainly say something here, or mention the importance of the feast that is celebrated that day or something, but it shouldn’t seem like you’re hearing a sermon or something.

Whenever the priest or any of the other people working about the altar walk in front of it, do theye bow to it? Do they genuflect to the tabernacle when walking by it? They should.

Does the priest refer to sin in the opening part of the Mass, where everyone says “Lord have mercy,” or does he instead talk about “our failures,” or “our mistakes” or whatnot? He should be either telling you to ask forgiveness for your sins, call to mind your sins, or begin the Confetior prayer, which starts “I confess to almighty God…”

This can be a hard one to judge, but does the priest seem to be trying to pray to God when he says the prayers, or does he seem to be talking to the crowd, perhaps using the sorts of voices one might talk to their kids with? The priest ought to be talking to God. Now like I said, this one can be hard to judge, but you might be able to get a sense of it. Another way of looking at it is, does the priest seem to be saying the Mass as if it were a show - as if he were performing - or does he seem to be praying? This is really one of the more important things I’ll mention - whether or not the priest is trying to put on a show or not.

Are the readings read respectfully, or in some goofy way? Does the reader properly refer to God as “He” or does he or she use gender inclusive langauge?

Is the homily good?

Does the priest say the full Nicene Creed, or does he substitute either a series of questions about what you believe or the Apostle’s creed instead?

Are the prayers of the faithful after the creed good ones? Do they pray for anything they shouldn’t, like greater acceptance of gay-marriage or something?

Here we get to the very important part. Everything after this point is of extreme importance compared to the rest:

Does the priest refer to sacrifice? He should ask you to pray that the sacrifice will be acceptable. If he instead prays that the “celebration” or anything else will be acceptable, then chances are this is not the best parish.

Does the priest maintain an aura of reverancec during this time of the Mass?

Does the priest read these prayers respectfully and perhaps even solemnly, or in some… “new agey” or whatnot way?

Here is something that’s easy to look out for. When the priest picks up the host and says the “This is My body” part, what is he doing with it? The most orthodox and reverant priests will usually bend down, hold it close to their faces, and stare intently at the host as they say these words (unless perhaps the priest is too old to bend, but he will still likely look at it). Some good priests don’t go that far, but what you don’t want to see is the priest really hardly paying attention to the host, or waving it around to the people, or treating it in any way nonchalantly. This can really be a huge sign to you.

After this, does the priest genuflect (unless perhaps he is really quite old) reverently, or does he do so very rushedly, or only halfway, or even choose to bow instead or do nothing at all?

Another biggie - at least in my mind - when the priest places the host down after he has said “This is My body” and held it up, does he do so gently and reverently, or does he just plunk it down as though it were money on a store counter?

Througout this prayer, do you at least here some references do “sacrifice” or “offering?” Does the priest mention the departed in any way?

Does the priest receive Communion reverently, or as though he were eating a potato chip?

Very, very, important: does the priest at any time here start to give some kind of a mini-homily, like I described about the beginning? Does he start to talk about how wonderful the Eucharist is, or make any reference to the community other than what the prayers might say? In other words, does he at any time stop reading the prayer to God and start talking to the people in church? He absolutely shouldn’t up until he asks you to pray the Our Father and offers you the peace of the Lord. If he does, this is a very bad sign.

Is Communion distributed reverently? If Communion is distributed only by priests and deacons, this is a very good sign. If it is distributed by ONLY lay people while the priest does nothing, this is a very bad sign. Under the best of circumstances, seeing lots of lay people distribute Communion would be a bad sign, but as it is, even the good parishes do this often times.

Is the Mass ended reverently, with a blessing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit?

These are some things to look for.

Peace and God bless
 
First- does it refer to itself as ‘St Whomever’s Catholic Church’(or Sacred Heart Catholic Church, or whatever) or does it say ‘Faith Community’? If the word ‘Catholic Church’ is missing from it’s sign, bulletin, whatever, soemthing is wrong. Sometimes they will start with ‘Catholic Church’ and use’ Faith Community’ to avoid repetition; this is fine. However, they shouldn’t be ashamed of the label’ Church’ or "Catholic’.

Next-Do the people seem interested and friendly, or do they seem like they are mindlessly going and not paying attention? This is hard to tell, because many very devout and respectful people simply wish to be silent and alone before they enter the church, and when they do, they should be sitting prayerfully. If you go and people are ignoring everyone else and rushing to thier pews, but then they sit there and stare at the wall or chat with thier neighbor, this is a bad sign. If poeple talk loudly in the sanctuary(they SHOULD be talking in the community hall/donut/coffee area, if they aren’t THAT’s a bad sign too), it is a strong indication that they probably don’t know or care what the Mass is or what they should be doing.

Finally- Do they have a poor box? Do they have fliers or annoucments for their ministries? If they do, are the ministries for the poor, pro-life events, helping the community, refurnishing old church buildings, or something, or are they ‘help envigorate your life’, ‘broaden your horizons’, ‘enjoy fellowship’. There should be a mix of both, but the first category(helping others, doing necessary things) should far outweigh the second.
 
My journey to Rome has been limited to studies in Scripture, history, and books. I’m now ready to find a Parish that agrees with the Magisterium. I know the traditional answer is just to attend the closest parish, and if I were single I’d probably do just that. But for my family’s sake, I’d like to find a parish that prides itself on its orthodoxy.

What are some external indicators that I can look for?
If I can meet with someone, who should I speak with, and what questions should I ask?

Here are a few external indicators that were suggested to me:
  1. Reading material near entrance includes more orthodox magazines (The Catholic Answer, Envoy, This Rock, New Oxford Review, Lay Witness, Our Sunday Visitor, or National Catholic Register) … Resources like Commonweal, National Catholic Reporter, or America may be a bad sign if not balanced by the more orthodox.
  2. Eucharistic adoration may be a good sign (but sometimes simply implies the community is immigrant)
Questions to Ask:
  1. What do you think of _____? (JPII, BXVI, Scott Hahn, Humanae Vitae, Evangelium Vitae)
What else do you suggest? What are the best indicators of a solid parish? Also, are there any indicators of a rebellious parish?

If you have any specific parish recommendations for me, I’m living a few minutes south of San Francisco, CA
You seem to have a fairly good list ryanmac…no lack of suggestions in the thread either. But I don’t think anyone has mentioned the sacrament of Reconciliation yet. See if they have confessions. It can be an indicator of “orthodoxy” for sure, but even if it weren’t a good indicator; if that’s the parish you’ll be going to , you definitely don’t want to be without the sacrament of Confession. that might be comparable to heading out to sea in a leaky boat without the life preserver.

See if the pray the Rosary there (that’s one more life preserver).

God bless and guide you.
 
Here’s the list I always suggest. These aren’t guarantees, but they get you pretty close in my experience (which, I’ll admit, isn’t much)

Look at church bulletins and look for these buzzwords: (Mostly available online)
  • Adoration (perpetual adoration is a good tip off)
  • Information about pro-life events
  • Frequent Confessions offered
  • Any Latin, Tridentine, or Extraordinary Forms of Mass offered
  • Information about public, private devotions (a rosary group before Mass, "meet at the ____'s house for such and such Novena, Chaplet of Divine Mercy prayed at three o clock in parish hall, etc)
Then visit the Churches, look for:
  • Statues, stained glass, and Icons
  • Kneelers
  • A crucifix at or near the altar
  • The placement of the Tabernacle
  • Holy Water fonts with Holy Water in them
  • If you see a communion rail, hear Gregorian Chant, or can catch the whiff of Incense still lingering on the air, sign up now.
Finally, attend Mass. Look for:
  • Proper vestements, gestures, phraising, etc.
  • A respectable “Sign of Peace”. This means the people greet the others in their immediate vicinity. The priest stays in the Sanctuary. If anyone crosses an aisle or runs up and down the aisle, remain for the rest of Mass and look elsewhere.
  • Proper, respectable music
  • A priest or deacon giving the homily. If a woman speaks, look elsewhere.
  • Listen to the Homily and make sure it’s orthodox.
  • If people kneel for Communion, sign up now.
  • If women are wearing veils, that’s a good sign.
If at any time the congregation surrounds the altar to ‘co-consecrate’, run, flinging Holy Water over your shoulder.
If you see anyone swaying as they carry bowls of incense, especially if they’re in leotards, run and apply Holy Water liberally over shoulder. Full out Liturgical Dancing requires the calling of your Diocese’s Exorcist.
If the priest advocates “Gay Marriage”, abortion, contraception, or puts heavy emphasis on “The Spirit of Vatican II” and or “One’s personal concsience,” run.

Finally, make sure this is a Catholic Church in Union with Pope Benedict the 16th, under the jurisdiction of your local Bishop.

That should do it!
 
…I don’t think anyone has mentioned the sacrament of Reconciliation yet. See if they have confessions. It can be an indicator of “orthodoxy” for sure, but even if it weren’t a good indicator; if that’s the parish you’ll be going to , you definitely don’t want to be without the sacrament of Confession…
Hmmm. I’ve never been to a parish that doesn’t offer the sacrament of Reconciliation. Check the bullitin for this as well. It should list when confessions are held and available. Generally, confessions are offered on Saturday before the evening mass which fulfills the Sunday obligation.
 
I can suggest tactics we have tried when moving to a new area, to check out local parishes. This is by the way, how it is done where I come from. You first determine if you “belong” in one of the ethnic parishes, and if not, you belong to the geographic “generic” parish in which you reside. However parish hopping is expected, the main criteria being which parish school has openings for your kids, so you begin evaluating the schools. I suppose for those with kids who will not be going to Catholic school, the orthodoxy and scheduling convenience of RE/PSR would be the next thing to look at.

The health of the school or RE is not a guarantee of a good, orthodox parish, but it is an indicator.

Some quickies I use to evaluate school/RE
religion textbook
who is in charge, definitely interview him or her
curriculum for my children’s grades
cost, but also how costs are met

IMO a tithing parish that supports or subsidizes Catholic education is the gold standard.
 
Here’s the list I always suggest. These aren’t guarantees, but they get you pretty close in my experience (which, I’ll admit, isn’t much)

Look at church bulletins and look for these buzzwords: (Mostly available online)
  • Adoration (perpetual adoration is a good tip off)
  • Information about pro-life events
  • Frequent Confessions offered
  • Any Latin, Tridentine, or Extraordinary Forms of Mass offered
  • Information about public, private devotions (a rosary group before Mass, "meet at the ____'s house for such and such Novena, Chaplet of Divine Mercy prayed at three o clock in parish hall, etc)
Then visit the Churches, look for:
  • Statues, stained glass, and Icons
  • Kneelers
  • A crucifix at or near the altar
  • The placement of the Tabernacle
  • Holy Water fonts with Holy Water in them
  • If you see a communion rail, hear Gregorian Chant, or can catch the whiff of Incense still lingering on the air, sign up now.
Finally, attend Mass. Look for:
  • Proper vestements, gestures, phraising, etc.
  • A respectable “Sign of Peace”. This means the people greet the others in their immediate vicinity. The priest stays in the Sanctuary. If anyone crosses an aisle or runs up and down the aisle, remain for the rest of Mass and look elsewhere.
  • Proper, respectable music
  • A priest or deacon giving the homily. If a woman speaks, look elsewhere.
  • Listen to the Homily and make sure it’s orthodox.
  • If people kneel for Communion, sign up now.
  • If women are wearing veils, that’s a good sign.
If at any time the congregation surrounds the altar to ‘co-consecrate’, run, flinging Holy Water over your shoulder.
If you see anyone swaying as they carry bowls of incense, especially if they’re in leotards, run and apply Holy Water liberally over shoulder. Full out Liturgical Dancing requires the calling of your Diocese’s Exorcist.
If the priest advocates “Gay Marriage”, abortion, contraception, or puts heavy emphasis on “The Spirit of Vatican II” and or “One’s personal concsience,” run.

Finally, make sure this is a Catholic Church in Union with Pope Benedict the 16th, under the jurisdiction of your local Bishop.

That should do it!
Another good list !!:tiphat:
 
Here’s how I knew:
We had just received a new priest. We were very scared, as our parish is technically a campus ministry, and our new priest was very young (we’re all young too, though!).
THe first night he spent at the parish, a few of us came over to hang out. At some point in the night, he said, “This is a big deal. I mean, I am responsible for people’s souls!”
He also started saying the Angelus as the entrance hymn to daily Mass (our daily Mass is at noon), is “available for Confession before and after every Mass, as well as on Saturday afternoons”. This translates to showing up at the center, hollaring up the stairs if he’s home, and getting your Confession heard down at the chapel whenever you need it. This is pretty important for college students!
 
Don’t take the LACK of a literature rack as a bad sign - some older buildings do not have vast space for those modern things 🙂
 
I’ve combined the lists above into one concise list.

What do you think? What other questions should I ask a priest?

Liturgy of the Mass:
  1. Does the priest wear all the vestments, including chasuble?
  2. Does the priest kiss the altar?
  3. Does the priest or others bow or genuflect to the tabernacle?
  4. Does the priest refer use the word “sin” or just “mistakes”?
  5. Does the priest pray or perform to the crowd?
  6. Does the priest refer to God as “He”?
  7. Is the homily orthodox?
  8. Does the priest say the full Nicene Creed?
  9. Do the prayers of the faithful include unorthodox requests? (ex. “for greater acceptance of gay marriage”)
  10. Does the priest refer to the sacrifice being acceptable? (not “celebration”)
  11. Is the priest reverent, respectful, and perhaps solemn?
  12. Does the priest bend down or kneel during the consecration?
  13. Does the priest treat the hosts with reverence?
  14. Does the priest go off script or offer homily or teaching before the Our Father and peace of the Lord?
  15. Is communion distributed evenly?
  16. Does the priest participate in communion? (rather than let lay people do it while he does nothing)
  17. Is the Mass ended reverently, with blessing of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
People attending the Mass:
  1. Are the people reverent?
  2. Do the people pay attention?
  3. Do people cross the aisle or walk up and down the aisle during the “Sign of Peace”?
  4. Do people kneel for communion?
External indicators:
  1. Does the parish use the word Catholic in their name? (as opposed to “Faith Community”)
  2. Do the bulletins promote ministries to the poor, support pro-life events, service opportunities, etc.?
  3. Do the bulletins promote fellowship, education, etc.?
  4. Do the bulletins promote public, private devotions? (Novena, Chaplet of Divine Mercy, etc.)
  5. Does the parish offer times to pray the Rosary?
  6. Is the sacrament of Reconciliation offered? Frequently?
  7. Is perpetual Adoration offered?
  8. Are there alternative forms of Mass offered? Latin, Tridentine, Extraordinary Forms of Mass?
  9. Are there statues, icons, stained glass?
  10. Are there kneelers?
  11. Is there a crucifix at or near the altar?
  12. Is there Holy Water in the fonts?
  13. Is there a communion rail?
  14. Does the parish smell of Incense?
  15. If the parish has a school, what textbooks do they use for Religion?
  16. If the parish has a school, does the parish subsidize Catholic education from a tithing congregation?
  17. Does the parish offer orthodox reading materials? (The Catholic Answer, Envoy, This Rock, New Oxford Review, Lay Witness, Our Sunday Visitor, or National Catholic Register)
Questions to ask the Priest:
  1. What do you think of _____? (JPII, BXVI, Scott Hahn, Humanae Vitae, Evangelium Vitae)
  2. Is the bible inerrant and infallible for more than just matters of faith and morals?
  3. Can Catholic doctrines be found in Scripture?
 
One of the things I learned when looking for a good parish, was to see how often they offer confession and how many people actually come to confession. My current parish (only because it is relatively close) offers confession twice a year (Lent and Advent). I won’t say they are bad people, but it is not an orthodox church. The next closest church is an hour away. They offer confession every Saturday, and I’ve noticed that most of the time when I go there, there is a line for the whole hour, of people waiting to confess their sins. That parish is much more orthodox than mine. Liberal priests tend not to stress the sacrament of reconciliation, whereas it is my experience that traditional more orthodox priests tend to stress it and therefore have more people availing themselves of it.

Historybrat
 
ryanmac says:
*
I’ve combined the lists above into one concise list.

What do you think? What other questions should I ask a priest?*

A great list, but don’t get too caught up in “scoring”. :cool:

You’ll have a hard time finding a parish the meets EVERY item on this list.
 
ryanmac says:
*
I’ve combined the lists above into one concise list.

What do you think? What other questions should I ask a priest?*

A great list, but don’t get too caught up in “scoring”. :cool:

You’ll have a hard time finding a parish the meets EVERY item on this list.
Of course, but thanks for the reminder.
 
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