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joe370
Guest
**Juxtaposer [/quote said:
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J
joe370
Guest
Well said brother!!! 
Actually forgive me, I wasn’t trying to be antagonistic and I completely understand what it is to be busy. Hope your studies are going well
Purgatory is in essence, as the verb it’s derived from - purge - suggests, a purging of the stain of sin before we enter heaven. Now that stain can be 1) the persistent attachment to a particular sin (i.e lust, greed etc) or 2) the remaining effects that our sins have had on ourself and more importantly the effect they’ve had on those around us or on mankind in general.
With regard to:
Hope that helps,
- Nothing unclean can enter into heaven (Revelation maybe 8:4? don’t have my bible with me at the moment) and so we cannot enter heaven until our souls are free from attachment to sin, for that attachment to sin makes our soul unclean. Therefore in this sense purgatory is a consequence of us wanting to be clean before entering God’s house. Suppose you were going to visit the President (or imagine some figure who you respect greatly) and on the way to the White House you tripped and fell in mud. You are now soiled and covered in dirt. But you are already at the residence and you don’t want to be late so you proceed to the door. Even if the President invites you in, you of your own accord and out of love and respect, will want to clean yourself off before stepping into his immaculate White House. So it isn’t really God punishing you, but more you being Sanctified.
- God gives us the opportunity to expiate the effects (or at least some of the effects) of our sins while on earth, perhaps through suffering or good deeds etc. The term “indulgence” can be used to express some of these ways. If the effects of our sins are not completely expiated before death then Purgatory will be the location for the completion. Imagine if you did something like commit adultery but never knew TRULY how much suffering it put not only your wife through, but your children and all those close to you. Now if it could be somehow made known to you the EXACT suffering those innocents experienced because of you behavior, imagine what sorrow and pain would grip your soul. How much would you grieve at knowing the pain you caused others? That, my brother in Christ, is in a way a purging, an expiation for what others have suffered at your hands. That is probably similar to what may happen in Purgatory. Again, Sanctification rather than punishment.
God bless in your studies and your journey,
Greg
S
Shin
Guest
Every sin owes a debt of penance. We are to, as repentant sinners do penance for our sins throughout all our lives.
Just like criminals being due a certain amount of corporal punishment for their crimes, a certain number of strokes of the cane, a certain number of days of harsh prison confinement, etc. In fact precisely so. It is a debt of punishment.
Penances can be and are most fittingly the opposite of what what the sin is. If we have sinned through gluttony, we should fast and give up even good food we could eat without sin, if we have sinned through anger, we should be meek and give up even lawful anger, sinned through a love of comfort, give up comforts and do what is difficult, etc…
Traditional penances are also, corporal and internal mortification, pilgrimages, prayers, etc.
The saints practiced penitential acts throughout their lives, and Christ’s life was one of sorrow and penance, though He was innocent. The merit of these penances considered all together were superabundant, more than enough.
Since there is an overflowing treasury of penance through Christ and His saints…
So, we can ask for indulgences, so that their penances can make up for ours. What this means is, the stripes we are due, the pains we are due, someone else has done, and we ask for the indulgence of God and the Church that they pay our just punishment instead of us.
And so the Church gives indulgences to certain prayers and acts, which gives them additional penitential worth to make up for the penalty due our sins.
The Holy Souls in purgatory did not sufficient do penance in this life. Therefor, they are detained in purgatory to be punished and make up for the lack of penance they did not do in this life.
We can ask that the indulgences we gain on this earth towards the punishment we are due for our sins, be applied to them too, to shorten their time in purgatory.
Since purgatorial penance is far more terrible than the penance we do in this life, this is a very charitable and worthwhile act, and we gain friends in Heaven by this charity.
So it is very simple. We are due punishment, the saints did more than enough penance, Christ did so, we substitute their punishments for ours, letting them take the strokes we are due. If this troubles a person, that is understandable… and should make a person all the more penitential, so rather than only gaining indulgences, one is part of the gift of them in the next life.
Just like criminals being due a certain amount of corporal punishment for their crimes, a certain number of strokes of the cane, a certain number of days of harsh prison confinement, etc. In fact precisely so. It is a debt of punishment.
Penances can be and are most fittingly the opposite of what what the sin is. If we have sinned through gluttony, we should fast and give up even good food we could eat without sin, if we have sinned through anger, we should be meek and give up even lawful anger, sinned through a love of comfort, give up comforts and do what is difficult, etc…
Traditional penances are also, corporal and internal mortification, pilgrimages, prayers, etc.
The saints practiced penitential acts throughout their lives, and Christ’s life was one of sorrow and penance, though He was innocent. The merit of these penances considered all together were superabundant, more than enough.
Since there is an overflowing treasury of penance through Christ and His saints…
So, we can ask for indulgences, so that their penances can make up for ours. What this means is, the stripes we are due, the pains we are due, someone else has done, and we ask for the indulgence of God and the Church that they pay our just punishment instead of us.
And so the Church gives indulgences to certain prayers and acts, which gives them additional penitential worth to make up for the penalty due our sins.
The Holy Souls in purgatory did not sufficient do penance in this life. Therefor, they are detained in purgatory to be punished and make up for the lack of penance they did not do in this life.
We can ask that the indulgences we gain on this earth towards the punishment we are due for our sins, be applied to them too, to shorten their time in purgatory.
Since purgatorial penance is far more terrible than the penance we do in this life, this is a very charitable and worthwhile act, and we gain friends in Heaven by this charity.
So it is very simple. We are due punishment, the saints did more than enough penance, Christ did so, we substitute their punishments for ours, letting them take the strokes we are due. If this troubles a person, that is understandable… and should make a person all the more penitential, so rather than only gaining indulgences, one is part of the gift of them in the next life.
O
Odell
Guest
- Sin results in guilt and punishment
- Punishments are both temperal and eternal.
- Temperal penalties may remain when a sin is forgiven.
- God blesses some people as a reward to others
- God remits temperal penalties suffered by some as a reward to others.
- This is the kicker 1Kings11:11-13. God was clear Solomon’s kingdom was not torn down not for Solomons sakebut for the sake of David. If david had not pleased God. God would have removed the entire kingdom.
There are other examples. God promised Abraham that if he could find a certain number of righteous men in Sodom he was willing to defer the city’s destruction for the sake of the righteous.
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