indulgences?

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Odell

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I have read very little on the subject and am not the greatest at explaining it

I have downloaded a bunch of stuff from scripture catholic on my phone for quick reference

Do you guys know of anything that is a good reference on indulgences that I can use as well?
 
I’ve always wanted to know, what is meant by “temporal punishment”?
 
GreenLantern said:
I’ve always wanted to know, what is meant by “temporal punishment”?
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Well, all our sins have temporal (earthly) consequences as well as spiritual ones. If I throw a rock at my neighbour’s window and break it, I’ve sinned by wilfully damaging his or her property, which has spiritual consequences for which a spiritual punishment is imposed (depending on the circumstances it might be a mortal sin and I might lose salvation) but I’ve also caused a temporal consequence - the physical damage to her window.

If I ask my neighbour to forgive me, and ask God to forgive me in confession as well, and receive that forgiveness, the spiritual consequences, or spiritual punishment, is taken care of. I’m no longer suffering the stain of that sin on my soul.

But what about the damage to the window? Justice demands that I do what I can to repair it, as well as simply saying sorry. So I might pay for the repairs, or I might do odd jobs around the neighbour’s house to work it off if I have no money, or something.

The penance the priest imposes in confession may go part of the way toward s paying off this temporal punishment, as may our other good works - charity, prayer, fasting or what have you. The indulgences attached to certain acts and prayers are a way of quantifying that, or at least making clear that either all or part of the temporal punishment will be paid off if we devoutly say certain prayers or do certain other acts.
 
I think if we look at the development of the doctrine of indulgences they become easier to understand.

Originally, indulgences were a lessening of penance–the penance prescribed was usually a general estimate of the temporal punishment that needed to be remitted (or, as it was often put using a Scriptural phrase, of the fruits of repentance that needed to be brought forth). However, it was understood that if one died before bringing forth the proper fruits, it would be rectified in the after life–this phenomenon is generally referred to as Purgatory in Latin theology.

The bishop or Pope could pardon the temporal punishment if they judged the penitent to be properly disposed–this is why indulgences were often described in terms of days or years–it was days or years of penance you didn’t have to do.

However, since the temporal punishment carried over into the afterlife, it logically followed that the indulgence granted must also. For example, take two penitents who both had to stay in a cell in a monastery for two years.

If one died after a day the temporal punishment would be made up before entering Heaven. The other living penitent, would of course finish his own punishment on earth.

Now, imagine they are both granted a plenary indulgence after a day (and the one dies thereafter). For the living, he would experience the indulgence by no longer having to fulfill his time in the cell. For the other that died right after receiving the indulgence, he would experience it by not having to fulfill the temporal punishment after death.
 
LilyM said:
Well, all our sins have temporal (earthly) consequences as well as spiritual ones. If I throw a rock at my neighbour’s window and break it, I’ve sinned by wilfully damaging his or her property, which has spiritual consequences for which a spiritual punishment is imposed (depending on the circumstances it might be a mortal sin and I might lose salvation) but I’ve also caused a temporal consequence - the physical damage to her window.

If I ask my neighbour to forgive me, and ask God to forgive me in confession as well, and receive that forgiveness, the spiritual consequences, or spiritual punishment, is taken care of. I’m no longer suffering the stain of that sin on my soul.

But what about the damage to the window? Justice demands that I do what I can to repair it, as well as simply saying sorry. So I might pay for the repairs, or I might do odd jobs around the neighbour’s house to work it off if I have no money, or something.

The penance the priest imposes in confession may go part of the way toward s paying off this temporal punishment, as may our other good works - charity, prayer, fasting or what have you. The indulgences attached to certain acts and prayers are a way of quantifying that, or at least making clear that either all or part of the temporal punishment will be paid off if we devoutly say certain prayers or do certain other acts.
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Cool, thanks 🙂
 
GreenLantern said:
I’ve always wanted to know, what is meant by “temporal punishment”?
Click to expand...
Temporal punishments basically deal with sanctification. When you sin you hinder your sanctification (waste the time and gifts God has given you to grow in holiness), thus to “make up for” that sin you must do extra acts of charity motivated by love/fear for God. Check out these verses of Scripture:** Through love and faithfulness sin is atoned for**; through the fear of the LORD a man avoids evil.
-Prov 16

8Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
-1 Pt 4

19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
  • James 5
39Then the Lord said to him, "Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. 40You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? 41But give what is inside the dish to the poor, and everything will be clean for you.
42"Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone.
-Luke 11
Popular Purgatory passages are 2 Macc 12:46, Matt 5:25f, 1 Cor 3:15.

In remitting temporal punishment two main things are fixed in regards to your soul:
1)Attachment/Urge to a given sin is lessened if not fully eliminated.
2)Repairing of a damage done.
 
Catholic_Dude said:
Temporal punishments basically deal with sanctification. When you sin you hinder your sanctification (waste the time and gifts God has given you to grow in holiness), thus to “make up for” that sin you must do extra acts of charity motivated by love/fear for God. Check out these verses of Scripture:Through love and faithfulness sin is atoned for; through the fear of the LORD a man avoids evil.

-Prov 16

8Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

-1 Pt 4

19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
  • James 5
39Then the Lord said to him, "Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. 40You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? 41But give what is inside the dish to the poor, and everything will be clean for you.

42"Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone.

-Luke 11
Popular Purgatory passages are 2 Macc 12:46, Matt 5:25f, 1 Cor 3:15.

In remitting temporal punishment two main things are fixed in regards to your soul:
1)Attachment/Urge to a given sin is lessened if not fully eliminated.
2)Repairing of a damage done.
Click to expand...
Great post! I would just add that an indulgence draws on all of the superabundant charity of the whole Body of Christ throughout all of time (the “treasury of merit”) since we are all united as members of one Body.👍
 
Catholic_Dude said:
Temporal punishments basically deal with sanctification. When you sin you hinder your sanctification (waste the time and gifts God has given you to grow in holiness), thus to “make up for” that sin you must do extra acts of charity motivated by love/fear for God.
Click to expand...
So your suggesting there is an ongoing debit and credit going with each member of the church? its a plus+ and minus- scenario?

Strange…Especially when I read scripture like this…
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and** washed us from our sins **in his own blood,
 
myfavoritmartin said:
So your suggesting there is an ongoing debit and credit going with each member of the church? its a plus+ and minus- scenario?

Strange…Especially when I read scripture like this…
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and** washed us from our sins **in his own blood,
Click to expand...
In a manner of speaking. In the temporal arena only. My guess is that few, if any, have a credit balance.
 
Genesis315 said:
Great post! I would just add that an indulgence draws on all of the superabundant charity of the whole Body of Christ throughout all of time (the “treasury of merit”) since we are all united as members of one Body.👍
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YES! This is where the “Treasury of Merits” comes in, it reminds me of that famous passage in
Col 1 24Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you,** and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church**. … 28We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ. 29To this end I labor, struggling with all his energy, which so powerfully works in me.
myfavoritmartin said:
So your suggesting there is an ongoing debit and credit going with each member of the church? its a plus+ and minus- scenario?
Click to expand...
I dont think “debt” is the right term here. We are called to grow in holiness, no Christian would deny that, and when we sin we are not growing in holiness.
Strange…Especially when I read scripture like this…
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and** washed us from our sins **in his own blood,
Click to expand...
I dont see what is so “strange” except the fact you ignored the clear Scriptures I mentioned: Through love and faithfulness sin is atoned for, love covers a multitude of sins, etc.

What you are quoting in in reference to first being saved, where your soul is washed pure (a concept in irreconcilable contradiction with the Protestant view of justification), but we can fall into sin later on. As Jesus said: **But give what is inside the dish to the poor, and everything will be clean for you.
**
 
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