Indulgences

[FuzzyBunny116]

I’ve got a question-when it says that to gain an indulgence, one must have “no attachment to sin,” does that mean they simply don’t sin? Seems rather tricky to do.

 

[Genesis315]

I think it means that you have a firm resolve not to sin including venial sins. Some people have venial sins that they aren’t really sorry for, that they don’t plan on giving up (ie they’re attached to them). You can’t have that and get the plenary indulgence. This is, however, still trickier than one might think. I read about this saint once who was giving some blessing or something that had a plenary indulgence attached. He was giving it to a huge group and all of a sudden he was able to see who in the group was receiving the plenary indulgence. The only two people who received the plenary and a not just a partial were himself and a little old lady.

 

[FuzzyBunny116]

Ah I see, thanks for the response. If it is being offered for someone, though, do you know if its you YOURSELF that must be free from attachment, or perhaps the soul you’re trying to release? Yourself I’m assuming…also, partial indulgences don’t require the lack of attachment from sin do they?

 

[Sir_Knight]

Genesis315:

I think it means that you have a firm resolve not to sin including venial sins. Some people have venial sins that they aren’t really sorry for, that they don’t plan on giving up (ie they’re attached to them). You can’t have that and get the plenary indulgence. This is, however, still trickier than one might think. I read about this saint once who was giving some blessing or something that had a plenary indulgence attached. He was giving it to a huge group and all of a sudden he was able to see who in the group was receiving the plenary indulgence. The only two people who received the plenary and a not just a partial were himself and a little old lady.

I heard something very similar – in that a majority of people who seek indulgence their entire life never actual obtain a single plenary indulgence.

 

[jennstall]

Sir Knight:

I heard something very similar – in that a majority of people who seek indulgence their entire life never actual obtain a single plenary indulgence.

This is why I never bother to pray for indulgences for myself. I entrust all of them to Mary so she can do what she likes with them.

 

[Sir_Knight]

If I am not mistaken, I believe that Mary’s promises are to save us from the fires of hell and do not extend to being spared from purgatory.

However, even partial Indulgences are not something to be sneezed at since they remit a portion of the temporal punishment.

The church no longer uses ‘days’ or ‘years’ to measure time in purgatory because the church has no way of knowing how long certain punishments are. Plus, since time exists on a different scale in purgatory and a couple of hours can FEEL LIKE several years, discussing time spent in purgatory in terms of days or weeks or years really makes no sense but for ILLUSTRATION PURPOSES ONLY consider the following example …

Let’s say you’ve accumulated a 270 day stay in purgatory and after receiving a partial indulgence, one-third of that is wiped away so instead of 270 days, you are down to 180 days. Now let’s say you acumulate another 270 days in purgatory. That brings you up to 450 days (270+180) in purgatory. Assuming another partial indulgence which wipes out one-third of the temporial punishment, you are now down to 300 says instead of 450 days in purgatory.

One last time, let’s assume you accumulate another 270 days in purgatory which now brings you up to 570 days in pugatory (300+270) and another partial indulgence wipes away one third of the punishment bringing you down to 380 days.

True, you didn’t obtain any plenetary indulgences and will still have to suffer in purgatory but would you rather spend 380 days or 810 days (270+270+270) in purgatory?

Indulegences (either plenetary or partial) are a great gift to help us avoid or shorten our stay in purgatory. I don’t know about others but I’ll take ANYTHING that will lessen my time there even if it is a fraction of a percentage point.

 

[Hesychios]

jennstall:

This is why I never bother to pray for indulgences for myself. I entrust all of them to Mary so she can do what she likes with them.

I wish I knew how to politely respond to this without offending anyone.

The whole transactional nature of indulgences is difficult for some people (especially Easterners) to accept as it is, adding the concept of passing them over like a stack of poker chips seems highly abusive to me. Not just wrong, but really wrong.

I cannot fathom it, sorry.

+T+
Michael

 

[awalt]

Hesychios I somewhat agree, we seem to all want to turn our faith into an engineering exercise!

I do believe in thiss however:

1. The concept of temporal punishment is real - forgiving someone, for example your child, yet asking them to do something in punishment like wahs the car, is the way a family works. I believe our Father does the same, and besides the Church says so.
2. The concept of Indulgences is also supported by the CHurch. I think the reason all the number of days stuff was eliminated was exactly your point, plus there was corruption when people attempted to buy/sell indulgences, which is taking it to yet another low.

If you forget you ever say the number of days attached to indulgences, then the concept that the works you do in lilfe, in other words true worship, prayer, and almsgiving to glorify God, are the kinds of things we should be doing if our faith is strong and we have been saved. It all gets us there and very likely is part of making us pure to enter into heaven with God.

Leave the specifics of exactly how much someone needs to do, to that first conversation with Jesus in heaven