Indult traditionalists wary of new Pope?

[marcadam]

Randy2:

Any ideas on if the new Pope will allow the 20 or so indult parishes to continue? I would hate to see these indult groups go into schism.

Let us be frank: if indult group are prepared to go into schism over lack of availability of indult masses, they should be worried already. Trust me, I’m all for a true freedom of worship, but I’m personally not a huge fan of the Tridentine rite. It isn’t what I grew up with, and it is hard for me to associate it with what I’m familiar with as “the Mass”. My preference is NO in Latin with whole bunches of Gregorian propers and Renaissance polyphony.

But would I jump ship to SPJXXIII or SPPVI were NO to be abolished? What kind of nonsense is that?

Sorry folks, when you start thinking “maybe I just know better what the church needs than the pope,” you need to take a good long look at where you’re headed. There’s something mighty ironic about Traditionalists who have so little respect for authority.

 

[marcadam]

Randy2:

Any ideas on if the new Pope will allow the 20 or so indult parishes to continue? I would hate to see these indult groups go into schism.

Let us be frank: if indult groups are prepared to go into schism over lack of availability of indult masses, they should be worried already. Trust me, I’m all for a true freedom of worship (read: indult, good; liturgical dance, bad) but I’m personally not a huge fan of the Tridentine rite. It isn’t what I grew up with, and it is hard for me to associate it with what I’m familiar with as “the Mass”. My preference is NO in Latin with whole bunches of Gregorian propers and Renaissance polyphony.

But would I jump ship to SPJXXIII or SPPVI were NO to be abolished? What kind of nonsense is that?

Sorry folks, when you start thinking “maybe I just know better what the church needs than the pope,” you need to take a good long look at where you’re headed. There’s something mighty ironic about Traditionalists who have so little respect for authority.

 

[dumspirospero]

I am hoping and praying this will happen…but it is unlikely. I believe both groups could be pleased in implementing my plan. If the Pope were to make it mandatory that each Diocese/Arch-Diocese make it mandatory that at least one parish in the diocese offer an Indult TLM every Sunday…I think that would please a lot of my fellow traditionalist. Personally, I would like to see it were every single parish had to say at least one Indult TLM per week…that would be even better.

As a traditionalist…I was pulling hard for Pope Benedict XVI to win…and I am glad I got my wish. I believe great things are in store for us.

Of course, I would also like to see an increase in strictly Latin Parishes…

 

[Brendan]

EddieArent:

…Cardinal Ratzinger didn’t want priests being able to choose to celebrate either the Novus Ordo and/or Tridentine Mass. He wants it more “generous” but how?

Well what then Car. Ratziner said was pretty much on the mark. It would be poor leadership to have priests choose what Missal they wanted to celebrate from completely independantly.

What would be best is to have Apostolic societies whose particular chrism involves the TLM (such as the FSSP). The SSPX could have a similar standing. Their society heads could manage their own seminaries and open parishes and schools that are mostly indepentant of the Local Ordinary. their priests could properly be restricted to TLM only (or more properly, as the norm)

Diocesan priests priests would be under the direction of their bishop.

In this way, we can prevent a mish mash of liturgies. What would happen if a TLM parish got assigned a priest who only wanted to say the N.O. for example, or vice versa. Every time a priest was reassigned, the new parish would have to wonder what langauage was being used.

A seperation between Apostolic Societies and Diocesan Authority would be a good starting point.

 

[amcalabrese]

Why must their be one liturgy? Catholicism has alway had multiple liturgies? Before Trent, the Western Rits used different liturgies, such as the Sarum Use. Even after Trent, Milan was permitted to use the Ambrosian Rite (which even has different liturgical seasons) and Toledo used the Mozrabic RIte.

And of course the Eastern churches were always permitted to use their rites.

Maybe the answer is this.

1. Each Diocese should designate one parish as an Indult parish. Such parish can use both the 1962 MIssal and the 1970 Missal (in both Latin and English, as sees fit).
2. Other parishes can decide whether to use the 1970 Missal in Latin or the 1962 Missal for some Masses. In the spirit of Vatican II, the laity of the Parish should have (name removed by moderator)ut.
3. Use of Latin chant and other traditional music should be encouraged in vernacular Masses.

 

[Benedictus]

I go to a Indult Mass whenever I can, and I’m quite elated about the new pope. I think that every real traditionalist I’ve heard from is optimistic about Benedict XVI. Even some of those who attend schismatic chapels are optimistic.

 

[batteddy]

I think that it COULD be dangerous to allow priests both rites…at least it cannot be called a permanent solution. There is an official liturgy to the rite. It gets weird when we start making things “options”.

If we are going to bring back the Tridentine in any permanent and lasting way…a second rite, or something like it, would have to be created. Otherwise it is just like a quaint artifact in a museum. A sociological anachronism.

First, every diocese should have at least one parish that is designated as a tridentine rite parish. Exclusively. No Novus Ordo there…probably the indult parishes that now exist…

Then the other parishes in a diocese which were built BEFORE the reforms of liturgy (because the architecture of new churches often does not suit the tridentine and was designed for the NO…like table altars and not facing east and stuff…) should be able to vote whether they want to remain a Novus Ordo parish…or return to being an exclusively Tridentine parish…though the pastor and bishop, and vatican would have ultimate say as always…

I dont know if I would have other bishops running a seperate hierarchy for the tridentine parishes (like an Eastern rite)…or if they would be under their regular bishop…

I guess it depends how many per diocese go that way…if there are only a few per diocese…then they could be administered by a seperate bishop because his Province could be much larger geographically and probably cover many dioceses (like the eastern rite territories in Western lands now)…however, if many per diocese voted to return, i would not want to set up a competing bishop, as it were, whose area pretty much shadows the current one’s…

But parishes, and priests, should be exclusively one or the other…