Inequality

[Catilieth]

Amazing how everyone just said “wow, what awful facts”…there is more than one way of skinning the numbers. It is also a fact, from the IRS, that the richest 20% of the taxpayers pay 82% of the taxes in this country, and that the bottom, a record 44 million will have to pay no taxes ( because growing deductions and credits have effectively removed them from the tax base)

Now, where is the fairness in this, that 20 % pay nearly all the taxes for this country?

And poor is also a very relative term… Mother Teresa, for many years, did not open any convents here because she said that her ministry was to the poor, and this country had no real poor. She changed her mind because she saw the spiritual poverty, and all of her sisters here minister to the spiritually poor (those with AIDS, unwed mothers, etc.)

The infant mortality among the black people in this country is a social issue, not an economic one. I can provide some examples if you’d like.

 

[patshea1128]

MikeinSD:

The only thing Jesus said about taxes was “give Caesar what is due Caesar’s” which didn’t seem a ringing endorsement of a capital gains tax cut.

Jesus talked a lot about the poor. An awful lot. Enough to suggest that decent treatment of all people, despite economic status, was a central part of his teachings. In fact, I think He instructed his followers “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has annointed me to bring good news to the poor.” The poor – the same folks we saw screaming, desperate, and dying in New Orleans.

Anyone see a divine suggestion for a tax cut for folks earning over $100,000 in anything Jesus said? How about a preference for the poor?

You still have yet to prove your point! You have not found the passage where Jesus Christ commanded us to usurpt the freewill of another man to help a third person. When you find that one, you might have a valid point! Good luck. Seriously, you need to mind your own business and quit worrying about what the other guy is getting and how unfair it is. There are plenty of parables covering that topic and yet that seems to be your beef, isn’t it?

 

[patshea1128]

MikeinSD:

The only thing Jesus said about taxes was “give Caesar what is due Caesar’s” which didn’t seem a ringing endorsement of a capital gains tax cut.

Jesus talked a lot about the poor. An awful lot. Enough to suggest that decent treatment of all people, despite economic status, was a central part of his teachings. In fact, I think He instructed his followers “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has annointed me to bring good news to the poor.” The poor – the same folks we saw screaming, desperate, and dying in New Orleans.

Anyone see a divine suggestion for a tax cut for folks earning over $100,000 in anything Jesus said? How about a preference for the poor?

I stand by my earlier statement, Catholicism and liberalism are incompatible. Protestantism and liberalism are a match made in hell. Only self-centered, controlling individuals would have an argument with that statement!

 

[cynic]

patshea1128:

WOW, that says it all right there! You’re not a Catholic are you? In essence, what you have said is that man is inherently evil. That is not true. God made man in his own image. You most certainly belong to a Protestant church, for that is how the Protestant ministers keep protestants, protestant. They teach the flock that man is inherently evil. You, by your statements, obviously believe that. MMMM…What should I say next?

Typical libertarian extemism, someone disagrees, so get like that. What do you say to people earning $300 a week about how they educate their children? And elderly people who’ve earnt a similarly low wage their whole lives, no family, and run out of savings? That’s right no answers cause there are none and there was never any interest in providing any. I think your a libertarian first and foremost, this is survival of the fittest. Whats mine is mine so hands off!! We’ve had ‘socialist’ funding for education since the 19th century. If we didn’t we’d have a large number of people illiterate because private education costs a_lot_of_money, great if your a upper middle to high earner. Not possile for the rest of us.

 

[cynic]

Bringing religion into the argument, and implying that anyone who isn’t libertarian is a lazy, greedy, enviouse control freak etc just covers up the disntinct lack of answers libertarians have. It makes sense to ensure that every child has access to a minimum level of education, can you think of another way to ensure that? So the parents don’t earn enough, sorry little guys no school for you. Multiply that by millions and you’ve got a social and economic disaster. Like it or not these uneducated fools who drew the short straw for parents aren’t just going to lie down in a corner and conveniently die. And I’d like to meet an employer who prefers his staff to be illiterate.

Is there a country in the world that has ever tried libertarianism?

 

[LittleDeb]

Catilieth:

Amazing how everyone just said “wow, what awful facts”…there is more than one way of skinning the numbers. It is also a fact, from the IRS, that the richest 20% of the taxpayers pay 82% of the taxes in this country, and that the bottom, a record 44 million will have to pay no taxes ( because growing deductions and credits have effectively removed them from the tax base)

Now, where is the fairness in this, that 20 % pay nearly all the taxes for this country?

And poor is also a very relative term… Mother Teresa, for many years, did not open any convents here because she said that her ministry was to the poor, and this country had no real poor. She changed her mind because she saw the spiritual poverty, and all of her sisters here minister to the spiritually poor (those with AIDS, unwed mothers, etc.)

The infant mortality among the black people in this country is a social issue, not an economic one. I can provide some examples if you’d like.

Well said! :clapping:

 

[cynic]

patshea1128:

You still have yet to prove your point! You have not found the passage where Jesus Christ commanded us to usurpt the freewill of another man to help a third person.

that might be true but taxes going to schools is also a practical issue.

here you go lp.org/

 

[LittleDeb]

Since my family falls on both sides of this economic fence, maybe this perspective will help.

My parents, plus my sister and brother-in-law are in the “evil high income, tax break” group. My husband and I? Um, much more in the “poor” group.

What do my parents do with their “evil tax break?” Why they are at present using it to pay my son’s outrageously high medical bills that are supposedly covered at 80% by our insurance. BTW that amount is 80% of the insurance company’s allowed amount, not 80% of the real total.

Oh and the “well you are so lucky to even have insurance” part? No we’re not. My husband works for a hospital that sets it up that if you don’t insure through them you lose those little perks like, “time off with pay.”

The point that is being made here is that people like my parents are better stewards of their money. That is one of the reasons they are wealthy! Yeah, tithing. Me about 1% at the moment. My folks? I don’t even ask. I’ve seen them give more to the poor in one month than my husband makes. We are striving to be just like them!

The Catholic Church does an infinitely better job helping the poor than any government entity simply because it is based on the goodness of humanity.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

Lazerlike42:

Actually his profile says he is Catholic. I don’t see where what he said necessarily indicates that he believes anything at all about theology.

I know the OP from other fora, but just scanning the threads he’s started here will present a revealing look at his theology. When googling his username, you’ll find he’s been a favored member at places that align themselves with “Catholics for a Free Choice” or Dignity. His posting style is a fairly consistent variant on the hit and run trolling method - a citation of some sort, a semblance of an argument, a flawed conclusion posed as a question, and then a general refusal to really engage the conversations he starts.

 

[katybird]

patshea1128:

Are tax cuts morally justified when they serve to concentrate wealth at the top?

Actually, she did and that was precisely the point of her entire post. Perhaps reading comprehension is not a strong suit of yours? (note: question, not an insult) Yes, I agree, she did point out some disturbing facts about our country. Did you not recognize the fact that I addressed the root cause of those disturbing facts or were you perhaps too wrapped up in trying to make a leftist, socialist, atheistic, statement?

You are right - I didn’t read the first post carefully.

I think it’s a bit rude to say that about my reading comprehension, though. Of course it was an insult, and to say it wasn’t it a lie.

 

[Brendan]

patshea1128:

I’m absolutely certain Jesus did NOT have the middle man (ie. federal government) involved in any part of the equation.

I seem to remember Christ asking Peter, not Ceasar, to tend and feed His sheep.

I think the Church should step up and claim it’s rightful position as primary provider for the poor.

The entire concept of “help the poor by paying taxes, or we’ll confiscate all you own and throw you in jail” really doesn’t seem all the Christian to me.

Anyone who thinks they are helping the poor via the government is kidding themselves. They are putting the poor in the hands of a secular, adeistic structure that cares little about humans as a unity of body and soul.

When they stand before Christ and try and claim they the clothed Him when He was naked,

 

[patshea1128]

katybird:

You are right - I didn’t read the first post carefully.

I think it’s a bit rude to say that about my reading comprehension, though. Of course it was an insult, and to say it wasn’t it a lie.

No, now it is your ego that is out of wack. I have not make a single untrue statement. I was, in fact, NOT insulting you. You percieved it as an insult. Your perception and reality are not necessarily the same thing. That is a problem many people have with regards to God and the Catholic Church. And no, I am not upset that you just called me a liar when in fact, I have not told a single lie. I can not help it if the truth upsets you.

 

[patshea1128]

cynic:

that might be true but taxes going to schools is also a practical issue.

here you go lp.org/

But, but, but, but…NOTHING! But is an evil word that should be avoided. But is usually followed by Moral Relativeism, a concept of Protestantism, not Catholicism.

 

[patshea1128]

Brendan:

I seem to remember Christ asking Peter, not Ceasar, to tend and feed His sheep.

I think the Church should step up and claim it’s rightful position as primary provider for the poor.

The entire concept of “help the poor by paying taxes, or we’ll confiscate all you own and throw you in jail” really doesn’t seem all the Christian to me.

Anyone who thinks they are helping the poor via the government is kidding themselves. They are putting the poor in the hands of a secular, adeistic structure that cares little about humans as a unity of body and soul.

When they stand before Christ and try and claim they the clothed Him when He was naked,

SPEAK LOUDER BROTHER! Give them a fish, they eat for a day, teach them to fish, they eat for a lifetime. Wasn’t that the creed of the Catholic church at one time?

 

[patshea1128]

cynic:

that might be true but taxes going to schools is also a practical issue.

here you go lp.org/

Actually, using tax dollars for education was started by the Protestants. The practical issue is to have parents assume personal responsibility for the children they procreate. I have never had a single person invite me into their bedroom to help them procreate, yet every fall, the same people that didn’t invite me into their bedroom, come to my doorstep begging me to raise my property taxes to help educate their children. Parents raise the child, the village raises the idiot! Which do you want your child to be? The fact of the matter is, taxes going to schools has proven statistically over the past 60 years of public education to be disastrous. It is actually, in fact, HIGLY IMPRACTICAL. There you go, I don’t need to provide a biased link.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I can’t really follow the lines of reasoning in this thread. It seems to be a competition about who can post the most replies in a row, without anyone else’s (name removed by moderator)ut. Appealing as this competition sounds, I will spend my time elsewhere.

:ehh:

 

[patshea1128]

Prodigal_Son:

I can’t really follow the lines of reasoning in this thread. It seems to be a competition about who can post the most replies in a row, without anyone else’s (name removed by moderator)ut. Appealing as this competition sounds, I will spend my time elsewhere.

:ehh:

Your post made it just fine. I certainly didn’t try to block it.
Perhaps its the logic that disturbs you? The easiest way to drive an illogical insane, is to bombard them with logic and reason while avoiding insult the entire time.
Peace Brother

 

[jman507]

What do you feel the role of the govenment is?

 

[patshea1128]

jman507:

What do you feel the role of the govenment is?

The role of government is clearly defined in the Constitution. National Defense being #1. The Federal Government has gotten 2 things right in its 200+ years. The United State Military Establishment, and Space Exploration (NASA). They should stick to those 2 ventures. I’ve got this crazy idea going on inside of my head that man is inherently good and when confronted with decisions of kindness and humanity, man will make the right choice. I am one of those lunatics that actually has faith in mankind and the goodness of man. I do not have faith in government. It is lazy people that put their faith in government. People avoid having to make decisions and would rather have government control their lives. I do believe that is contrary to what Jesus Christ expects from society.

 

[Brendan]

jman507:

What do you feel the role of the govenment is?

Romans 13

To main order and the punishment of evildoers.

That would seem to imply general infrastructure works (roads and bridges) and police\judiciary\military functions.