Infalliability and Superman!

  • Thread starter Thread starter ncgolf
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
N

ncgolf

Guest
The Catholic Church claims it’s teachings are protected by the promise of Jesus Christ tht it cannot ever become overcome by the forces of Hell … in sense it is indestructible due to it’s protection by Jesus, himself.

Now I am not going to make my point using Scripture, this has been done by much more knowledgable people on the subject but by a little reason.

The claim of infalliabilty (and all its associated tenets … Apostolic succession etc.) is much like what Superman is. He too is indestructible. Now Superman is a work of fiction we do not believe that men like Superman exist but Catholics believe in the infallability of the Church that it cannot be destroyed. Either Catholics believe in fairy tales or it is true. Adults do not believe in fairy tales. Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, Easter Bunny, Zeus, unicorns, Paul Bunyan the list can go on and on … the belief in those disapper over time.

The belief in the infallabilty though never really understood as child, at least I did not, grows as one matures. It is the opposite of the fairy tale beliefs. So either, as Catholics, we are regressing in ability to see myth from fact or the Holy Spirit through reason and education is revealing something true about the Church.

One can argue Scriptually for hundreds of years but how can the opposers of claim of infalliabilty argue through reason. If one does then it is saying something about the Catholic, that Catholics believe in myths or a fairy tale. The claim is so large that it does reach the mythical or Superman proportions.
 
Hi Ncgolf,

I don’t quite understand what you are trying to convey, but I do suggest you learn the spelling of infallibility. One loses credibility so easily…

Verbum
 
ncgolf said:
Adults do not believe in fairy tales. Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, Easter Bunny, Zeus, unicorns, Paul Bunyan the list can go on and on … the belief in those disapper over time.
Click to expand...
Simply being an adult does not mean that what you believe in is true. Many adults would say that the Book of Mormon, or Scientology, is at least partial fiction, for example. There are many adults who would say the same about Catholicism too, as there are so many other religions out there that people believe in.
 
ncgolf said:
The Catholic Church claims it’s teachings are protected by the promise of Jesus Christ tht it cannot ever become overcome by the forces of Hell … in sense it is indestructible due to it’s protection by Jesus, himself.

Now I am not going to make my point using Scripture, this has been done by much more knowledgable people on the subject but by a little reason.

The claim of infalliabilty (and all its associated tenets … Apostolic succession etc.) is much like what Superman is. He too is indestructible. Now Superman is a work of fiction we do not believe that men like Superman exist but Catholics believe in the infallability of the Church that it cannot be destroyed. Either Catholics believe in fairy tales or it is true. Adults do not believe in fairy tales. Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, Easter Bunny, Zeus, unicorns, Paul Bunyan the list can go on and on … the belief in those disapper over time.

The belief in the infallabilty though never really understood as child, at least I did not, grows as one matures. It is the opposite of the fairy tale beliefs. So either, as Catholics, we are regressing in ability to see myth from fact or the Holy Spirit through reason and education is revealing something true about the Church.

One can argue Scriptually for hundreds of years but how can the opposers of claim of infalliabilty argue through reason. If one does then it is saying something about the Catholic, that Catholics believe in myths or a fairy tale. The claim is so large that it does reach the mythical or Superman proportions.
Click to expand...
I am not following you. :confused: Are you saying that it is ridiculous for Catholics to believe in the infallibility of the the Church?

There is many things that all Christians have hard time understanding. Like the resurrection or the Trinity. Does that mean we should just chalk it up as myth or untrue? As humans we all cannot truly understand an atom. So does that mean we should say it does not exist and that it is ridiculous to believe they exist. That is nonsense.

We have faith in God and in His words.
 
Before I start flaming here (relax mod…I’m just conveying my frustration, not my true intent) let me see if I understand you correctly.

Are you trying to say that it is not possible for God to protect the Church He established on earth from falling into error in its teachings, and that if anyone believes that God is powerful enough to do this then they are childish and are believing in a fairy-tale or a myth ?
 
st_lucy said:
I am not following you. :confused: Are you saying that it is ridiculous for Catholics to believe in the infallibility of the the Church?

We have faith in God and in His words.
Click to expand...
I am trying to see visualize how Catholics are seen … trying to see us from the outside in … especially from the Protestant point of view. They have a grounding in the same Scripture but it only goes so far in its interpretation … Catholicism goes much so much further in its interpretation of Scripture and many of those are the so called difficult ones.

Oh I believe in the Catholic teachings but I wanted to emphasize just how radical and difficult I think changing those beliefs are for Protestants.
 
Okay, point taken (and well proven, IMHO). That is why I always try to explain “infallibility” for what it really is. I always emphasize that “infallibility” does not refer to the people who compose the magisterium, but to the teachings they give us. If WE are protected from erroneous teachings directly through the hand of God, then those teachings (being directly “approved” by God as Truth) would have to be infallible.

Infallibility is a protection God gives to US, not to the Pope or the Magisterium. And, tradition has shown on several occasions, the extent to which God is willing to intercede to protect us from error. (striking a Pope dead, rather than have him force a severely flawed translation of the Bible on the faithful is a pretty powerful testament to what “infallibility” actually is, and what it is not).
 
Please accept my apoligies if I have confused anyone … my whole intention was a reflection on part of John 6 …“This saying is hard, who can accept it.”

For Protestants the teachings of the Church are hard to accept … I tried to use the analogy of trying to convince someone that Superman is real … no reasonable adult would be convinced so I think that the conversion of heart to some of the tough Catholic beliefs is akin to my analogy. It has to be extremely difficult to begin and continue the process of realigning what you believe given the radicalness of change.

Maybe my OP was poor in its design but in my reflection from quote above from John 6 I have an appreciation for the Protestant difficulty.
 
ncgolf said:
Please accept my apoligies if I have confused anyone … my whole intention was a reflection on part of John 6 …“This saying is hard, who can accept it.”

For Protestants the teachings of the Church are hard to accept … I tried to use the analogy of trying to convince someone that Superman is real … no reasonable adult would be convinced so I think that the conversion of heart to some of the tough Catholic beliefs is akin to my analogy. It has to be extremely difficult to begin and continue the process of realigning what you believe given the radicalness of change.

Maybe my OP was poor in its design but in my reflection from quote above from John 6 I have an appreciation for the Protestant difficulty.
Click to expand...
Agreed, and I must concede that all too often I lose sight of how the teachings of the Church, especially to someone who truly loves and wants to please God, and DENIES what we know as Truth, must be “hard teachings”.
 
ncgolf said:
Please accept my apoligies if I have confused anyone … my whole intention was a reflection on part of John 6 …“This saying is hard, who can accept it.”

For Protestants the teachings of the Church are hard to accept … I tried to use the analogy of trying to convince someone that Superman is real … no reasonable adult would be convinced so I think that the conversion of heart to some of the tough Catholic beliefs is akin to my analogy. It has to be extremely difficult to begin and continue the process of realigning what you believe given the radicalness of change.

Maybe my OP was poor in its design but in my reflection from quote above from John 6 I have an appreciation for the Protestant difficulty.
Click to expand...
I am sorry that I misunderstood your OP :o . I now understand where you are coming from.

Please accept my apologies for misunderstanding.
 
Everyone knows the world’s greatest superhero is Daredevil. It’s a scientific fact.
 
There can be only one fullness of the faith. I think the Catholic Church is exactly what you would expect from the fullness of the faith. People have this bias for oversimplification, as though the truth should be entirely simple and obvious. But in reality, simple things are often only superficially simple. For example, someone looking at a rock might think it is a simple thing, but for a geologist, it hides immense complexity. Nature is filled with deceptively simple things that science reveals to be infinitely complex. It seems as though it is only faith that has this expectation of simplicity, when in reality is it complicated, and one can easily fall into error.

But in another sense, faith is really simple. It is believing everything that a person (God) tells us about himself. So in that way, it is a simple trust in another. This does not necessarily require understanding.

God bless,
Ut
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top