Infallibility and Change

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What are thoughts on this excerpt from Francis Oakley’s Council Over Pope? Towards a Provisional Ecclesiology (New York: Herder and Herder, 1969), pp. 176-178. He is a Catholic who writes on on issues facing ther Church and is President Emeritus of Williams College.

Let it be admitted, then, that the decrees and the ecclesiologies of Constance and Vatican I are in direct conflict one with another—and this despite the fact that both have to be regarded as meeting the requirements for dogmatic validity. What does this mean? It means no less than this: that the absolutist claims traditionally and currently made by the official Church for the magisterium cannot be sustained coherently by anyone who is ultimately willing to accept the evidence of history. It means that the claim to attach infallibility to particular conciliar or papal pronouncements must simply be dropped. Accordingly, it reduces also the claims so often made, and with such notable lack of restraint, for the binding force of papal pronouncements which do not lay claim to infallibility—or because of their subject matter (as in the case of Humanae vitae), cannot do so. It means, again, that conservatives no longer have to twist or reject the findings of the majority of biblical exegetes or to continue to manipulate scriptural texts in order to hold them to conformity with the obvious meaning of conciliar or papal doctrinal pronouncements in the past…It means, indeed, that Catholics can throw off their peculiar bondage to the recent past, that theologians, bishops and popes can slough away their obsessive preoccupation with protecting the “continuity” of papal and conciliar teaching, that no unsurmountable barrier need now divide the Roman Church from the other Christian churches. At the present moment, finally, it means both that Peter can be delivered from his chains and that those radicals who have not given up entirely on the institutional church can now permit themselves a measure of hope for a genuine and thoroughgoing transformation of that Church. …The trouble, of course, lies in the fact that it is a conclusion which demands of us what Charles Davis, in a recent exchange, demanded of the Scripture scholar John L. McKenzie, namely: the willingness to admit that the formulations of Vatican I’s definition of infallibility are not merely “unfortunate” (countless Catholic theologians admit that), but that they are simply wrong. For if the linguistic distance separating the two words is slight, the psychological distance separating them is usually immense. And precisely because of this psychological distance, I would argue, it is absolutely vital that the coming Vatican III should itself be willing to meet that demand, to renounce, that is—publicly, unambiguously, and in the most solemn terms—the absolutist claims traditionally and currently made on behalf of the Church’s teaching authority. So great a renunciation, so abject an admission of fallibility, so radical a commitment to honesty, would have an electrifying effect on the whole Christian world. It would liberate Catholic conservatives from the chains that bind them to an all too human past, it would free liberals from their bondage to an all too human present, it would leave all Catholics open, as rarely before, to the full, direct, and devastating impact of the Gospel message. In an abysmally divided world that hungers, fears and hates, the Church would then be delivered from its unhealthy, debilitating and narcissistic preoccupation with its own identity and its own future, and freed to bring the whole of its formidable spiritual, moral and material resources to bear on the mission of mercy, relief and reconciliation. Then, truly, could it come to be the lumen gentium and the sal terrae.
 
T. More:
What are thoughts on this excerpt from Francis Oakley’s Council Over Pope? Towards a Provisional Ecclesiology (New York: Herder and Herder, 1969), pp. 176-178. He is a Catholic who writes on on issues facing ther Church and is President Emeritus of Williams College.
Let it be admitted, then, that the decrees and the ecclesiologies of Constance and Vatican I are in direct conflict one with another—and this despite the fact that both have to be regarded as meeting the requirements for dogmatic validity. What does this mean? It means no less than this: that the absolutist claims traditionally and currently made by the official Church for the magisterium cannot be sustained coherently by anyone who is ultimately willing to accept the evidence of history. It means that the claim to attach infallibility to particular conciliar or papal pronouncements must simply be dropped. Accordingly, it reduces also the claims so often made, and with such notable lack of restraint, for the binding force of papal pronouncements which do not lay claim to infallibility—or because of their subject matter (as in the case of Humanae vitae), cannot do so. It means, again, that conservatives no longer have to twist or reject the findings of the majority of biblical exegetes or to continue to manipulate scriptural texts in order to hold them to conformity with the obvious meaning of conciliar or papal doctrinal pronouncements in the past…It means, indeed, that Catholics can throw off their peculiar bondage to the recent past, that theologians, bishops and popes can slough away their obsessive preoccupation with protecting the “continuity” of papal and conciliar teaching, that no unsurmountable barrier need now divide the Roman Church from the other Christian churches. At the present moment, finally, it means both that Peter can be delivered from his chains and that those radicals who have not given up entirely on the institutional church can now permit themselves a measure of hope for a genuine and thoroughgoing transformation of that Church. …The trouble, of course, lies in the fact that it is a conclusion which demands of us what Charles Davis, in a recent exchange, demanded of the Scripture scholar John L. McKenzie, namely: the willingness to admit that the formulations of Vatican I’s definition of infallibility are not merely “unfortunate” (countless Catholic theologians admit that), but that they are simply wrong. For if the linguistic distance separating the two words is slight, the psychological distance separating them is usually immense. And precisely because of this psychological distance, I would argue, it is absolutely vital that the coming Vatican III should itself be willing to meet that demand, to renounce, that is—publicly, unambiguously, and in the most solemn terms—the absolutist claims traditionally and currently made on behalf of the Church’s teaching authority. So great a renunciation, so abject an admission of fallibility, so radical a commitment to honesty, would have an electrifying effect on the whole Christian world. It would liberate Catholic conservatives from the chains that bind them to an all too human past, it would free liberals from their bondage to an all too human present, it would leave all Catholics open, as rarely before, to the full, direct, and devastating impact of the Gospel message. In an abysmally divided world that hungers, fears and hates, the Church would then be delivered from its unhealthy, debilitating and narcissistic preoccupation with its own identity and its own future, and freed to bring the whole of its formidable spiritual, moral and material resources to bear on the mission of mercy, relief and reconciliation. Then, truly, could it come to be the lumen gentium and the sal terrae.
 
I’m not familiar with the book, but the quote you posted qppears to sum it up, especially this part:

I would argue, it is absolutely vital that the coming Vatican III should itself be willing to meet that demand, to renounce, that is—publicly, unambiguously, and in the most solemn terms—the absolutist claims traditionally and currently made on behalf of the Church’s teaching authority.

Sounds to me like a futile expectation from someone whose fervent hope is that the Church will finally abandon her mission and finally get up to date with modernity.

JimG
 
Hint:
Whenever a book or paper begins with “Towards a …” red flag goes up- approach with caution. Well,usually, at least.
 
The money quote for me:
At the present moment, finally, it means both that Peter can be delivered from his chains and that those radicals who have not given up entirely on the institutional church can now permit themselves a measure of hope for a genuine and thoroughgoing transformation of that Church. …
(emphasis mine)

Also, the reference at the beginning to direct conflict is not spelled out, so the basic assumption cannot be justified (although it may be in another part of the article not quoted here).

The author seems very liberal. What kind of transformation does he want? Women priests, etc.?
 
What do I think

I think it is in the wrong section (not liturgy)

and I think so long a post of copyright material is against forum rules but I could be wrong.
 
Re
And precisely because of this psychological distance, I would argue, it is absolutely vital that the coming Vatican III should itself be willing to meet that demand, to renounce, that is—publicly, unambiguously, and in the most solemn terms—the absolutist claims traditionally and currently made on behalf of the Church’s teaching authority.
And would VIII claim the authority it had just renounced to make its claim official? Why should I pay any attention to it?
 
Why would a faithful Catholic even bother to read such convoluted ****. I may sometimes not like the discomfort of infallibility of Popes and Councils joined with the Pope, but as Peter(I think) said to whom else shall we go for words of eternal life.
 
Many a Catholic fear the way in which Papal Infallibility was defined at Vatican I was a bit too much, as it didn’t mention the other Bishops. Some say that it seemed to say that the Pope is the head of the Church, appart from the Church. Some have said that that is part of the reason why Vatican II was called. Not to revoke Papal Infallibility, but to express more on the college of Bishops, as the Pope does not “rule” the Church alone, but with the Bishops that are in union with him.
There is a splendid book by Archbishop Joseph Raya, whom is Melkite, which is a community of Eastern Christians in union with the Pope since 1724. In the book, titled The Face of God, he has a section on Church structure, namely, hierarchy. In his section on the Pope, he has a splendid quote from Patriarch Maximos VII, whom is Catholic and Patriarch of Antioch, and played a big role at Vatican II. (He has since been succeeded by Gregory III). I don’t have the book on me, thus don’t have the quote to supply here, although here is a splendid link on the office of patriarch: holy-cross.ca/grmaiang.html .
I shall try to sum up the Eastern view of the Pope. Eastern Catholic, that is. To my knowledge, the Pope has three rolls: Bishop of the local diocese, Patriarch of the West (in that he ultimately makes the decisions regarding practice and liturgy in the West), and Universal Shepherd. In his first two functions, he is no different then the other Patriarchs. To those that don’t know, there were, traditionally, five Apostolic Sees: Rome, Jersusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, and Constantinopel. The Bishop at each See was the Patriarch. They were all equal, but the Pope was more equal, as he had the function of Universal Shepherd that the other four Patriarchs didn’t have. When Patriarch Maximos arrived at Vatican II, they tried to have him sit with the Cardinals, in the college of the Bishops present. The Patriarch refused, and demanded to be seated with the Pope, as they are both Patriarchs. They conceded, and, I have been told, that the Patriarch of Constaninople (whom is Orthodox, and whom Orthodox call the “Ecumenical Patriarch”; Catholics would call the Holy Father the “Ecumenical Patriarch”, if we were to use such a term) commended Maximos. The Bishops are the heads of the Church, as the Apostles were the heads of the Early Church. The Pope is the president, if you will, of the college of Bishops, as Peter was the president, again, if you will, of the Apostles.
Eastern Catholics are sometimes put off how Western Catholics can tell you everything the Pope says and does, but if asked about their local Bishop, they would be speechless. The pastor at my Church said to me, in the midst of a similar conversation, that a lot of Catholics like to draw a triangle with the point at the top, and to say that this demonstrates Catholic hierarchy, and that the Pope is smack there at the top. He then flipped the triangle, which he had drawn on a marker board, upside down, and said, “No, the Pope is right here, at the bottom, as the Servant of the Servants, as the Brother who goes to the other Brothers in need and helps them…” Bear in mind that “Servant of the Servants” is one of the Pope’s titles (as is “Patriarch of the West”).

God bless,

Cocamo Joe
 
Anyways, I don’t know if I’ve made much sense, but the bottom line is that the Pope is infallible in faith and morals, but that that shouldn’t be overemphasized, as it tends to be. The way many Catholics speak of that dogma, is that every word that the Pope utters is binding on Catholics everywhere. I recall being on a Church tour at the Melkite-Catholic Church in Atlanta, and during the Q&A session, a Western Catholic, who was doubting the Cathoilcity of this Church, asked the pastor, Fr. John Azar, if he believed in Papal Infallibility. His response was, “Yes, I do, for, as you should all know, I’m Catholic. But how often does that happen? Not much. It’s not something that’s used much nor needed as often as Catholics speak of it.” Later that evening, I recall speaking with a friend of mine, who is a Ukranian-Catholic priest, and he said that he believes that part of the reason why union between all of the East and the West hasn’t been accomplished yet, is because of the West’s “overemphasis” on Papal Infallibility, as if that is the Pope’s main roll; when, in fact, his main roll is that of being the Universal Shepherd. If one is in union with the Universal Shepherd, then they are a member of the Universal, that is, Catholic, Church.
I will try to remember to bring that book with me the next time I visit my local library, to type the quote, as it expounds on this topic much better than I.

God bless,

Cocamo Joe

p.s. the immediate above is part of my first response; I had to truncate it, for it was over 4,000 characters.
 
Truncated? Even so,

Cocomojo

right or wrong

your post is too long.
 
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deogratias:
Truncated? Even so,

Cocomojo

right or wrong

your post is too long.
Too long according to whom? Who decides if what I have to say is too long? If your attention span is too short to read something that may deserve the adjective “lengthy”, then just don’t read it. I think the criticism is unnecessary.

Cocamo Joe
 
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