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Credo_in_Deum
Guest
I believe this link can provide you with an explination that could help.
ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya4.htm
With the grace of the Holy Spirit I know you will succeed.
God Bless
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ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya4.htm
God Bless
L
Lovesa
Guest
Thanks a bunch.
Hopefully I’ll find it easier to understand.
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TrueLight
Guest
I hope I won’t have to become a heretic.
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TMC
Guest
No real need for concern, the Church has recently considered this issue and declined to make it doctrine. The Church is not in the habit of reversing herself, certainly not so quickly. There is little reason to think this doctrine will ever change, certainly I would not expect it in our lifetimes.
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paddy22
Guest
I hope it didn’t come off like I was calling you one. But if it did become dogma, and somebody denied it, by definition they would be a heretic. I hope you won’t have to become one either!
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Rogerteder
Guest
The Church already teaches this…just like it taught the Immaculate Conception and The Assumption before they were infallibly defined! see the op’s 1st post
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Taliesin
Guest
Did Mary write (or have influence in the writing of) 1/2 – 2/3 of the NT? I suppose by your ‘logic’ we ought to include The Apostle Paul as a co-redemptor, since without him we wouldn’t know much about how to be saved.
This is all foolish talk about a person. KEEP YOUR EYES OFF MORTALS! (yes, that was shouting)
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Credo_in_Deum
Guest
Actually we would be fine without Saint Paul’s Epistles because we would still have all of his instructions since we still have the Church Christ founded. I mean come on where do you think Christians were going to hear the Word of God when Paul was writing his Epistles or before he wrote them? Do you think salvation took a break until Paul was finished? Please my friend your argument doesn’t even remotely void any of the points I made for why Mary can be validly called a Co-Redemptrix.
I know its shouting. I also know that people always shout when they are scared and that people are always scared when faced with things they don’t understand.
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wsxyz
Guest
You know, if there’s one thing most protestants love to do, it’s to ask each other to pray for them, and for their relatives, etc. etc.
And yet, to make such a request is asking someone else to mediate between you and God. How confused such protestants must be, who claim that The Blessed Virgin cannot be a mediatrix because Christ is the “one mediator”, and who then turn around and ask their friends to mediate for them!
Fortunately Catholics, who of course also ask their friends to pray for them, understand that without he mediation of Jesus Christ, mankind is eternally separated from God. Christ is the one mediator who brings mankind back to God; who makes it possible for men to enter into the presence of God. Without Christ, God and man are irreconcilable.
However, to suggest that this primary mediatorship of Christ, which He alone could accomplish and has accomplished, excludes the possibility of secondary mediatorship – in which one person intercedes with God on behalf of another – is ridiculous. And the protestants know this, because they use secondary mediators (their friends and family) all the time!
So don’t listen to the protestant nonsense. Trust the Church, the pillar and ground of the truth.
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mardukm
Guest
Dear all,
The early Fathers used similar language, but when they said things such as Pope Leo XIII, they ONLY meant it in reference to Mary as Theotokos. Every Grace flows through her because and ONLY WHEN she gave birth to the one that is the Source of all Grace. IMO, Pope Leo XIII expressed himself as the Fathers understood it.
But does every Grace flow through her NOW, apart from the moment of her giving birth to Christ? I am not at all sure. And I am not at all sure that such a belief can be supported from the Fathers. I would consider it a sure theologoumenon in the Latin Catholic Church, but I think it would be a mistake for the Pope to dogmatize such a teaching, especially if taken to mean that all Grace flows through her NOW.
Blessings,
Marduk
I am not sure I understand what “Co-Redemptrix” means.
The early Fathers used similar language, but when they said things such as Pope Leo XIII, they ONLY meant it in reference to Mary as Theotokos. Every Grace flows through her because and ONLY WHEN she gave birth to the one that is the Source of all Grace. IMO, Pope Leo XIII expressed himself as the Fathers understood it.
But does every Grace flow through her NOW, apart from the moment of her giving birth to Christ? I am not at all sure. And I am not at all sure that such a belief can be supported from the Fathers. I would consider it a sure theologoumenon in the Latin Catholic Church, but I think it would be a mistake for the Pope to dogmatize such a teaching, especially if taken to mean that all Grace flows through her NOW.
Blessings,
Marduk
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wsxyz
Guest
Oh no! The 3000 who converted on Pentecost Sunday didn’t “know much about how to be saved!” The Bible is the sole rule of faith right? They didn’t even have a Bible, and Paul wasn’t even a Christian yet, so I guess they were out of luck.
Or think of poor old Timothy. He wasn’t an apostle, so I guess he was just as reliant as we are on the Bible, the sole rule of faith, oh but… bummer! He didn’t have a Bible either. All he had were a few personal letters from Paul. Still, I think it’s safe to say that he realized right away that those personal letters were actually Holy Scripture, so whenever he had a question he could go read those letters again. After all, that was his only rule of faith. Ok, yeah sure one of those letters calls the Church “the pillar and ground of the truth”, but Paul probably meant “Bible” when he wrote “Church”.
Well surely by the year 200 or so things were sorted out well enough. They could rely on the Bible as their sole rule of faith by that time. At least the whole thing had been written… Well, as long as it doesn’t matter too much if one person’s sole rule of faith is different than another’s. And why should that matter, right? I mean, just because one bishop excludes the Apocalypse from his Bible, and another includes the Apocalypse but excludes the epistle of James, and yet another keeps James, dumps the Apocalypse and 2nd Peter, and adds the Shepard of Hermas, that’s no reason for them to disagree on any doctrine right? After all, if they disagreed, then the one guy could just say: “my point is proved right here in the Shepard of Hermas” and the other guy would totally buy it instead of saying “The Shepard of Hermas isn’t in my Bible, I don’t consider it to be scripture at all.” Because otherwise they wouldn’t have a sole rule of faith, and that wouldn’t do.
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sweetchuck
Guest
This thread is perhaps in need of a little simplicity:
“Of course Mary is the Co-redemptrix. She gave Jesus his body, and the body of Jesus is what saves us.” ~Bl. Mother Teresa of Calcutta
“Of course Mary is the Co-redemptrix. She gave Jesus his body, and the body of Jesus is what saves us.” ~Bl. Mother Teresa of Calcutta
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Lovesa
Guest
Yeah, I know that people intercede for each other. However, even with some Catholics, I see a rather large distinction made between “mediator” and “intercessor”. We “intercede” for each other; we don’t “mediate”, so I think that’s where the discomfort comes from. We tend to be very into semantics.
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mardukm
Guest
I think that’s funny, especially if a Protestant does it, because the Greek word for “mediate” and “intercede” is the same in the Bible.
Blessings,
Marduk
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jwinch2
Guest
Agreed.
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Lovesa
Guest
Really? I shall have to look that up.I think that’s funny, especially if a Protestant does it, because the Greek word for “mediate” and “intercede” is the same in the Bible.
Blessings,
Marduk
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Taliesin
Guest
“we would be fine without Saint Paul’s Epistles”. Unbelievable! That’s obviously not how things happened. Apparently God saw fit to have stuff written down. And millions in the millenia since Paul have been blessed by hearing his message preached and even saved through it. So my point stands: why isn’t Paul revered as much as Mary? Or better put, why isn’t Mary revered as little as Paul?
People also shout when their patience is at an end. This comes from understanding all too well. Ever since the time of Jerome you guys have been worshipping Mary. This redemptrix nonsense is just more evidence.
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Hunter53
Guest
I can not believe that anyone has a problem with this. We received our redemption through Jesus Christ and Mary gave us Christ. At the Assumption She was asked to be the mother of God ( not ordered ) and She said yes. God choose Her to be the means for us to receive the graces given to us from Christ. By saying yes, She also excepted the sufferings of the cross that only She would Know. She saw Her son die on the cross in a painful death that our sins caused, not Her’s, because She was free of sin. When Christ gave Her to John the Apostle when He was dieing She became the Mother of all men. By giving Her this honor, we honor God because He created Her and by rejecting Her we reject the Mother of God, how do you think He feels about that.
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