Infallible church and the Scriptures

[NonDenom]

Hi All
I’m sorry but I don’t remember the thread that I read this on but here goes anyway.
The thread stated that it took an infallible (Catholic) church organize the Scriptures. I have read in many post’s that the Bible belongs to the catholic church.

My question to you is what is more important, the message or the messenger?
I have ask this question to many people and I get the same answer every time, “The message”

Why would God need an infallible church to organize the Scriptures but not need infallible Men to write them?
Thanks for your imput.

 

[VociMike]

Why would God need an infallible church to organize the Scriptures but not need infallible Men to write them?

I think you’re using “infallible” in two different ways here. The writers of scripture were infallible when they wrote the scriptures. Otherwise the scriptures wouldn’t be scripture! Similarly, the Church is infallible when it clarifies and passes along the teachings it has received (no, that’s not a technical definition, but close enough for now).

 

[promethius95945]

I have read in many post’s that the Bible belongs to the catholic church.

It does. We wrote it, we compiled it, and we guarded the truth of it for 1,500 years before any protestant ever set hands to it.

My question to you is what is more important, the message or the messenger?
I have ask this question to many people and I get the same answer every time, “The message”

Your answer is correct: the message IS more important. The conclusion, however, is wrong. The bible is not “the message.” The church is the message. The bible is a small part of the church… think of the bible as the writing on the parchment that is the church… they are BOTH integral parts of Christian truth.

Why would God need an infallible church to organize the Scriptures but not need infallible Men to write them?
Thanks for your imput.

The last infallible Man died on a Cross nearly 2,000 years ago. The people need a pillar and bulwark of truth, built on the cornerstone which is Christ, to hold the truth as a shelter over their heads. This pillar MUST be without fault, for otherwise the roof (truth) would come crashing down. So yes, men may be fallable, but, doctrinally, the church CANNOT be (though it is hounded by evil men every step of the way)

 

[Randy_Carson]

Hi All
I’m sorry but I don’t remember the thread that I read this on but here goes anyway.
The thread stated that it took an infallible (Catholic) church organize the Scriptures. I have read in many post’s that the Bible belongs to the catholic church.

My question to you is what is more important, the message or the messenger?
I have ask this question to many people and I get the same answer every time, “The message”

Why would God need an infallible church to organize the Scriptures but not need infallible Men to write them?
Thanks for your imput.

You’re right.

God did need men who were inspired and infallible when they wrote the scriptures. He still uses men who are infallible when they formally teach on matters of faith and morals.

Infallibility is not from the Church; it is from God who protects his Church by preventing men from teaching error. This is what infallibility is all about.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

 

[kaycee]

The last infallible Man died on a Cross nearly 2,000 years ago. The people need a pillar and bulwark of truth, built on the cornerstone which is Christ, to hold the truth as a shelter over their heads. This pillar MUST be without fault, for otherwise the roof (truth) would come crashing down. So yes, men may be fallable, but, doctrinally, the church CANNOT be (though it is hounded by evil men every step of the way)

Totally derived from rationalization and without biblical support. Christ is the cornerstone and the Apostles are the foundation that the church is built on. We have the foundation directly from Sacred Scripture. We are not continuing to build a foundation!

 

[promethius95945]

Totally derived from rationalization and without biblical support. Christ is the cornerstone and the Apostles are the foundation that the church is built on. We have the foundation directly from Sacred Scripture. We are not continuing to build a foundation!

I never said a single thing about foundations… though nicely noted that Peter (or, more accurately, the office of the pope) is the rock one which the church would be built.

And, without reading the bible, I’m not suprised that you missed all of the biblical references in the section you quoted from me. to be honest, I would expect that people who are going to read my posts have enough working knowledge of the bible to know references without my having to hold their hands and specifically spell it out for them.

 

[NotWorthy]

I have a different take on things (boy, that’s unusual, isn’t it? )

The messenger is FAR more important than the message. Who’s the messenger, though? Why, it’s the Holy Spirit. He guided the authors to write the Sacred Scriptures. He guides the Church to interpret and teach morals and truths from Sacred Tradition and these Scriptures. He guides the Faithful to learn from the Church and Scriptures.

None of this would be available if it weren’t for the Messenger, the Holy Spirit!!! :bowdown:

 

[victus]

We have the foundation directly from Sacred Scripture.

The foundation of the Church existed before the bible was ever completed.