Infallible vs Non-Infallible Teaching

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I was just over at the thread re the Dormition of Mary (:slapfight:), and I came across comments re infallible and non-infallible teachings, and that we are required to believe non-infallible teachings as well as infallible ones.

I’m not sure I understand. Can someone expound on this? What teaching, for example, is **not **infallible, but that I **must **believe?

Thanks in advance, folks.
 
Too bad Brother Jay wasn’t posting; your post is one that should be answered by someone who genuinely knows the answer. If not, this thread could become a source of confusion.

I do remember once when I was listening to CAL years ago, someone called and asked the priest guest if Catholics are required to be against the death penalty since Pope John Paul II had spoken/written against it. The answer was no; that it was only the pope’s personal opinion and Catholics were free to think otherwise.
 
I was just over at the thread re the Dormition of Mary (:slapfight:), and I came across comments re infallible and non-infallible teachings, and that we are required to believe non-infallible teachings as well as infallible ones.

I’m not sure I understand. Can someone expound on this? What teaching, for example, is **not **infallible, but that I **must **believe?

Thanks in advance, folks.
Were they perhaps conflating two issues? There is infallible vs. fallible and then there is the levels of Church teaching (e.g. defined dogma, ordinary magisterium, etc.).
 
Were they perhaps conflating two issues? There is infallible vs. fallible and then there is the levels of Church teaching (e.g. defined dogma, ordinary magisterium, etc.).
Joe, do you happen to know where I could find these levels of Church teaching (with an example of a teaching for each level) ?

I understood John’s post to mean that he was concerned that we would be required to believe non-infallible Church teaching.
 
Joe, do you happen to know where I could find these levels of Church teaching (with an example of a teaching for each level) ?

I understood John’s post to mean that he was concerned that we would be required to believe non-infallible Church teaching.
I think probably the best explanation for the levels of Church teaching from ecclesial documents is the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith’s Doctrinal Commentary on the Concluding Formula of the Professio fidei (it’s about halfway down that page after the Profession of Faith itself and John Paul II’s Ad Tuendam Fidem). The CDF even gives examples. 🙂

Yes, I understood his question that way, too. It struck me as a bit confusing. The Church doesn’t generally identify particular teachings as fallible.
 
I think probably the best explanation for the levels of Church teaching from ecclesial documents is the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith’s Doctrinal Commentary on the Concluding Formula of the Professio fidei (it’s about halfway down that page after the Profession of Faith itself and John Paul II’s Ad Tuendam Fidem). The CDF even gives examples. 🙂

Yes, I understood his question that way, too. It struck me as a bit confusing. The Church doesn’t generally identify particular teachings as fallible.
I can honestly say that I have never heard of this document. It should be available in the vestibules of each and every Catholic Church in this country. It is a little gold mine. 🙂

Thank you, Joe!
 
I can honestly say that I have never heard of this document. It should be available in the vestibules of each and every Catholic Church in this country. It is a little gold mine. 🙂

Thank you, Joe!
I felt the same way when someone first pointed it out to me. 🙂 I am happy to pay it forward.
 
The following statement from Ott’s Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma might also be helpful.

With regard to the doctrinal teaching of the Church it must be well noted that not all the assertions of the Teaching Authority of the Church on questions of Faith and morals are infallible and consequently irrevocable. Only those are infallible which emanate from General Councils representing the whole episcopate and the Papal Decisions Ex Cathedra (cf. D 1839). The ordinary and usual form of the papal teaching is not infallible. Further, the decisions of the Roman Congregations (Holy Office, Bible Commission) are not infallible. Nevertheless normally they are to be accepted with an inner assent which is based on the high supernatural authority of the Holy See (assensus internus supernaturalis, assensus religiosus). The so called “silentium obsequiosum,” that is “reverent silence,” does not generally suffice. By way of exception, the obligation of inner agreement may cease if a competent expert, after a renewed scientific investigation of all grounds, arrives at the positive conviction that the decision rests on an error.
 
John Lazarus #1
I came across comments re infallible and non-infallible teachings, and that we are required to believe non-infallible teachings as well as infallible ones.
I’m not sure I understand. Can someone expound on this? What teaching, for example, is not infallible, but that I must believe?
Joe 5859 #5
The Church doesn’t generally identify particular teachings as fallible.
It is vital to understand that NO DOCTRINE is ever “fallible”. This is a falsehood now being promoted by one poster in the thread “Ordinary teaching of the Magisterium, but not infallible vs. infallible ordinary teaching of the Magisterium” in the Forum Apologetics/Moral Theology.

The three levels of teaching are:
1) Dogma – infallible (Canon #750.1) to be believed with the assent of divine and Catholic faith.
2) Doctrine – infallible (Canon #750.2) requires the assent of ecclesial faith, to be “firmly embraced and held”.
3) Doctrine – non-definitive (non-infallible) and requires intellectual assent (“loyal submission of the will and intellect”, Vatican II, *Lumen Gentium 25), not an assent of faith. [See the Explanatory Note on ATF by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith]
The CCC #88 (1997) clearly combines exactly with Pope John Paul’s *Motu Proprio *(= on his own authority) Apostolic Letter *Ad Tuendam Fidem, *1998 (ATF), which requires the assent of divine and Catholic faith to believe (credenda sunt) dogmas (a category one truth) (Canon #750.1); and a category 2 truth requires the assent of ecclesial faith, as a secondary truth, “proposed definitively” (definitive proponuntur) to be “firmly embraced and held” (now Canon 750.2). In fact, the 1983 revision of Canon Law had replaced in #749.3 “dogmatically declared or defined” with “infallibly defined”, thus NOT expressing a limitation of infallibility to dogmas. ATF better enables Canon Law to apply to the understanding of infallibility including the Profession of Faith covering the two categories of infallible doctrine.

Vatican II, reiterated the teaching of Vatican I on papal infallibility, and its documents are readily available [from the EWTN Library (http://www.ewtn.com/vlibrary/search.asp) or the Vatican Library] for anyone with the will to know what Christ’s Church is teaching, like most of the documents of Vatican I, and the papal documents before and since Vatican II. Anything worth doing, is worth doing well, and I would add if worth knowing, is worth knowing well. Two papal dogmas are infallible – The dogma of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin, and the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary.

**Answer by David Gregson of EWTN to me on Nov-22-2002: **
“You are correct in stating that the Pope exercises his charism of infallibility not only in dogmatic definitions issued, ex cathedra, as divinely revealed (of which there have been only two), but also in doctrines definitively proposed by him, also ex cathedra, which would include canonizations (that they are in fact Saints, enjoying the Beatific Vision in heaven), moral teachings (such as contained in Humanae vitae), and other doctrines he has taught as necessarily connected with truths divinely revealed, such as that priestly ordination is reserved to men. Further details on levels of certainty with which the teachings of the Magisterium (either the Pope alone, or in company with his Bishops) may be found in Summary of Categories of Belief.
 
Too bad Brother Jay wasn’t posting; your post is one that should be answered by someone who genuinely knows the answer. If not, this thread could become a source of confusion.

I do remember once when I was listening to CAL years ago, someone called and asked the priest guest if Catholics are required to be against the death penalty since Pope John Paul II had spoken/written against it. The answer was no; that it was only the pope’s personal opinion and Catholics were free to think otherwise.
I would go along with St John Paul. Murder, even if it is disguised as DP is the antithesis of Christian belief. There can be no justification for the DP
 
I would go along with St John Paul. Murder, even if it is disguised as DP is the antithesis of Christian belief. There can be no justification for the DP
This post is a good example of Lormar’s point that this sort of thing should be left to the experts…
 
The Catechism of the Catholic Church on the Vatican website has a good section on what infallibility is. Infallibility is not what most people (even Catholics) believe it is.

Google “infallibility catechism” and it will come right up.
Most of the arguments about infallibility on CAF happen because Catholics are
  1. not willing to read what the Church actually says
    and/or
  2. not willing to accept it
 
I don’t understand the numerous threads on this topic because it doesn’t matter which teachings are infallible and which teachings are non-infallible as we are BOUND BY BOTH.
 
I don’t understand the numerous threads on this topic because it doesn’t matter which teachings are infallible and which teachings are non-infallible as we are BOUND BY BOTH.
Can a non-infallible teaching change? I think that is the cause of the interest in this topic.
 
Can a non-infallible teaching change? I think that is the cause of the interest in this topic.
Theoretically yes, but it has never happened in 2000 years and I do not believe it will ever happen.
However, that does not change the fact that we are bound by the teachings of the Church, both infallible and non-infallible so I do not think about or lose sleep trying to fathom out which is which. It makes no difference.
 
This question is almost like “what do we have to do to be saved.” Don’t worry about that. Focus on God and accept Church teachings whether they have been “infallibly” defined or not. You are complicating matters far too much. 👍
 
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