Infallible...yes...no...maybe?

[Reformed1]

Okay my Catholic brothers and sisters.

How in the world do you guys know what is and what isn’t infallibly defined?

I guess I am asking…
a.) How does one know what council is and what council isn’t infallible? As I understand it an ecumenical council is considered infallible but other councils may not be.

b.) How does one know what statments of a pope are and are not infallible? Is an encycical considered infallible? The catechism?

c.) Somewhere I have read that the pope can be infallible in certain cicumstances or the bishops that are in union with the pope can be infallible. Can a group of bishops make an infallible declaration without the pope?

So, how do you know for certain what is and isn’t infallible?

 

[kleary]

a.) How does one know what council is and what council isn’t infallible? As I understand it an ecumenical council is considered infallible but other councils may not be.

The decrees of an ECUMENICAL COUNCIL that DEFINE a matter of FAITH OR MORALS to be held by all the faithful are infallible.

b.) How does one know what statments of a pope are and are not infallible? Is an encycical considered infallible? The catechism?

The Pope when speaking ex-cathedra, when he defines a dogma to be held by all the faithful is infallible. There is much to do with this- the Pope must declare such. All you have to do is look at the decrees of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption and you will see what I mean. An encyclical is also “infallible” if it meets the criteria of infaliblility as defined by Vatican I.

c.) Somewhere I have read that the pope can be infallible in certain cicumstances or the bishops that are in union with the pope can be infallible. Can a group of bishops make an infallible declaration without the pope?

If the Bishops, only when gathered together in an Ecumenical Council, and define a matter of faith or morals to be held by all the faithful, are infallible.

So, how do you know for certain what is and isn’t infallible?

1. Look to an Ecumenical Council
2. Look for a declared infallible decree from a Roman Pontiff

More information is here for you. God be with you on your search for truth. newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm

Ken

 

[RobNY]

Okay my Catholic brothers and sisters.

How in the world do you guys know what is and what isn’t infallibly defined?

I guess I am asking…
a.) How does one know what council is and what council isn’t infallible? As I understand it an ecumenical council is considered infallible but other councils may not be.

b.) How does one know what statments of a pope are and are not infallible? Is an encycical considered infallible? The catechism?

c.) Somewhere I have read that the pope can be infallible in certain cicumstances or the bishops that are in union with the pope can be infallible. Can a group of bishops make an infallible declaration without the pope?

So, how do you know for certain what is and isn’t infallible?

Anathamas are considered surefire signs of infallibliity in the context of a council, I do believe.

-Rob

 

[VociMike]

This is a serious and not a flippant question: why do you ask what is and is not infallible?

The reason I ask is because I have found that this question is often connected to a quest for “what must I believe?” and such an approach to the faith can lead to a very sterile and legalistic outlook, where one is always looking for an excuse not to believe one or another tenant of the faith.

The Church is authorized and guided by God to teach and preserve the faith. When one accepts this, one does not fret too much over what is infallible and how do we know it to be so. I have read that a number of the most basic truths that we accept about God and the faith have never been infallibly defined in councils, but the Church still teaches them as true.

So, consider what exactly it is that you are asking, and why you think it is important. Your answers might make for an interesting discussion.

 

[Guardian]

Okay my Catholic brothers and sisters.

How in the world do you guys know what is and what isn’t infallibly defined?

I guess I am asking…
a.) How does one know what council is and what council isn’t infallible? As I understand it an ecumenical council is considered infallible but other councils may not be.

b.) How does one know what statments of a pope are and are not infallible? Is an encycical considered infallible? The catechism?

c.) Somewhere I have read that the pope can be infallible in certain cicumstances or the bishops that are in union with the pope can be infallible. Can a group of bishops make an infallible declaration without the pope?

So, how do you know for certain what is and isn’t infallible?

If you’re lazy like myself, you can go buy yourself a copy of “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma” by Ludwig Ott which tells you what is and is not infallible.

 

[mercygate]

Think of infallibility as the sticking point of the wider doctrine contained under the heading of “thou art Peter” along with the promise that Jesus would send the Spirit to guide the Church “into all the Truth”: namely, the indefectibility of the Church.

[Three paragraphs](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/890 The mission of the Magisterium is linked to the definitive nature of the covenant established by God with his people in Christ. It is this Magisterium’s task to preserve God’s people from deviations and defections and to guarantee them the objective possibility of professing the true faith without error. Thus, the pastoral duty of the Magisterium is aimed at seeing to it that the People of God abides in the truth that liberates. To fulfill this service, Christ endowed the Church’s shepherds with the charism of infallibility in matters of faith and morals. The exercise of this charism takes several forms of the Catechism treat of the broad definition of infallibility.

 

[JOE_OBERR]

If you’re lazy like myself, you can go buy yourself a copy of “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma” by Ludwig Ott which tells you what is and is not infallible.

I would go straight to the Church documents themselves, Vat I & II, which define when the Pope exercises the charism of infallibility. Vat II’s document is The Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (#25). It says the Pope teaches infallibly when:

1. As supreme pastor & teacher of all the faithful
2. Who confirms his brethren in the faith
3. He proclaims in an absolute decision
4. A doctrine pertaining to faith or morals

These documents are not in error, i.e, they are true as the Popes approved them. Ludwig Ott has no teaching authority, his interpretations of the respective Vat I & II documents on infallibility could very well be wrong. The charism of infallibility was granted only to Peter & his successors, not to theologians or individual bishops (unless they are in union with the Pope).

I would trust no one but the Popes and those bishops in union with him as that is what Jesus teaches us through the Gospel the apostles preached & taught.

Based on the above definition, whenever it’s criteria are met, the Pope has taught infallibly. The teachings contained within encyclicals, catechisms approved by the Pope (such as the CCC), councilior documents, and any other papal documents are infallible.

 

[Spirithound]

If a statement is infallible, you will basically be told within that statement that it is infallible. Basically, when the pope uses the words “declare” and “define” in the same sentence, it’s infallible. (of course, there are other, similarly worded formulae, but i’m sure you can figure it out).

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

The Pope when speaking ex-cathedra, when he defines a dogma to be held by all the faithful is infallible. There is much to do with this- the Pope must declare such. All you have to do is look at the decrees of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption and you will see what I mean. An encyclical is also “infallible” if it meets the criteria of infaliblility as defined by Vatican I.

Some infallible trivia: The Immaculate Conception of the Mother of God was defined infallibly by the Pope before the First Vatican Council was held. Ineffabilis Deus was promulgated in 1854 and the First Vatican Council was held during 1869.