Infamous Mormon Apologist Plans to Start "Mormons, Come Home" website

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SteveVH said:
Parker, when the Catholic Church sends out the invitation to “come home”, they are not only speaking to former Catholics, but rather the whole world. Christ’s true Church is home to everyone and this is a sentiment that most converts experience. They are finally home. The Mormon attempt here is so obviously a copying of the Catholic effort that it should be embarrasing to Mormons.
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SteveVH,

I had never heard of either “Catholics come home” or the idea of Jeff Lindsey about a website. When I hear the words “come home” I don’t think of some universal “sentiment”. I do think of “sentimentality”, which is a literary term.

Jeff Lindsey would have to get permission in order to use those words on a website, I have to assume–so I doubt that he will receive that permission and Catholics won’t need to feel “copied” or “threatened” or whatever other feeling about the use of such a common phrase for a website.

By the way, Jeff Lindsey has been involved in answering questions on a website he personally developed, for literally years. The idea of his wanting to explore the possibility of helping those who have struggled with their own questions and testimony, is not uncommon or unique, but he already has had success with a website dealing with doctrinal issues and questions, and it has nothing to do with the church having started it or having encouraged him to do it–it was on his own. This would be on his own also–but I think to use that phrase he would have to ask for permission or at least should. (Again, only my assumption knowing what little I know about it.)
 
ParkerD said:
SteveVH,
By the way, Jeff Lindsey has been involved in answering questions on a website he personally developed, for literally years.
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Correction: He has been involved in appearing to answer questions. The man seems pathologically unable to frame a strong construction for any anti-Mormon argument he pretends to respond to. Consequently, the defenses of Mormon teaching at his website could scarcely be less challenging than they are. Usually I can refute them as I read.

For example, one of his most recent articles talks about the fallibility of prophets, apparently to show that prophets can mistakes. He then gives a host of citations from LDS Scripture and General Authorities to the effect that prophets are fallible men. “Why,” Lindsay asks, “is it so hard for critics to understand that neither the Bible nor LDS doctrine claims that true prophets will always be free of human error?” Of course, virtually no one who seriously criticizes LDS prophetic errors makes that simplistic reduction, as if prophets needs to make zero mistakes ever. It has to do with the content and nature of the errors that Mormon prophets make. When a guy stands up and says, “God revealed X to me and you will be damned if you don’t believe it” or “Y is a direct commandment of the Lord,” well then X had better be true, and Y had better be a real demand, or else the guy talking isn’t a prophet. Many of the old LDS teachings that today’s postmodern members feel free to disregard as opinion are actually like that, and no one need to embrace to simplistic, stupidities that Lindsay routinely attributes to critics of Mormonism to assert that such teachings demonstrate a lack of prophetic authority. Yet not once in the whole article does Lindsay really deal with the character of the most important, alleged prophetic errors, though that is actually the crucial points in his opponents’ argument. Only the crudest, most unskilled of Mormonism’s critics are refuted by this.

This kind of hit-the-straw-man nonsense is broadly characteristic of Lindsay’s work.
 
St_Nephi said:
mormanity.blogspot.com/2012/01/mormons-who-came-back-requesting-your.html

Mormons sure like copying Catholics.
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It’s an honest observation that they have a problem with not only retaining converts, but they are losing members who are generational families.

The gentleman who is in charge of handling the formal resignation requests in Salt Lake has had his staff increased significantly over the years.

They are trying to find ways of stemming the hemmoraging of members (my words)
 
twopekinguys said:
I hate to be obvious, but I think the** “mormon come home” idea is primarily for tithing that has been lost due to the massive exodus they have been experiencing in recent years. (gotta love the internet)**

The Catholic Come Home idea is aimed at the true spiritual, religious, faith aspects.

BIG difference between the two.

While it has been said that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, I think this is more of a deception than anything else.

Just my :twocents:
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Exactly…
 
Khalid said:
That’s Elder Parker to you.* Remember the Grip of the Nail and the Five Points of Contact to enter the Celestial Kingdom!

I’ve not noticed until very recently that the Book of Mormon says on its cover in very large letters, ANOTHER GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST - remember what Early-day Saint Paul said about another gospel? And that the LDS god is “the god of this world” alone - remember what he said about the god of this world? And you have to go all the way back to Genesis, chapters 3-4 to find out what happened the last time the god of this world promised to make man a god.

*At least that’s what I assume, he may be Bishop or Counselor or Seventy Parker instead. When I first investigated Mormonism and the missionaries gave me the number of a Bishop to call, I was astounded - what a way to make a man feel important! My questions are actually good enough that the missionary lessons can’t handle them, but they need to refer me to an actual bishop? It was too late that I realized that was a diocesan pastor, whose job is to talk to people.
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Actually friend, it’s “Another Testament of Jesus Christ”…not “Another Gospel…”…it puports to be an additional testament of the same gospel of the Eastern Hemisphere which Jesus gave to his “other sheep” here in the Western Hemisphere…Paul’s reference to “another gospel” in no way indicated the meaning you present…whether the BoM is what it claims to be or not should not relieve us of speaking the truth.

Just a comment from the peanut gallery.
 
Another testament = another gospel. A “testament”, as in “New Testament”, containing the Gospel - thus, “testament” is for all intents and purposes synonymous here, in religion, with “Gospel”. Testament, as in Last Will and Testament, and Gospel, good news, and evangelist - “proclaimer [testator] to the good news”, “martyr”, “witness [testator] to the good news”.

I think my point was made without quibbling on semantics - now, to the next part of my post: what happened the last time someone promised to make man God? And about Earlier-day Saint Paul’s statements on the god of the world - Mormons acknowledge that their god is only the god of this world, after all (much like Gnosticism in that sense, but without any of the good parts).
 
Khalid said:
Another testament = another gospel. A “testament”, as in “New Testament”, containing the Gospel - thus, “testament” is for all intents and purposes synonymous here, in religion, with “Gospel”. Testament, as in Last Will and Testament, and Gospel, good news, and evangelist - “proclaimer [testator] to the good news”, “martyr”, “witness [testator] to the good news”.

I think my point was made without quibbling on semantics - now, to the next part of my post: what happened the last time someone promised to make man God? And about Earlier-day Saint Paul’s statements on the god of the world - Mormons acknowledge that their god is only the god of this world, after all (much like Gnosticism in that sense, but without any of the good parts).
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"I’ve not noticed until very recently that the Book of Mormon says on its cover in very large letters, ANOTHER GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST - " just wanted to clarify your statement…no…it does not say what you said it did…is all…🤷
 
Khalid said:
Another testament = another gospel. A “testament”, as in “New Testament”, containing the Gospel - thus, “testament” is for all intents and purposes synonymous here, in religion, with “Gospel”. Testament, as in Last Will and Testament, and Gospel, good news, and evangelist - “proclaimer [testator] to the good news”, “martyr”, “witness [testator] to the good news”.

I think my point was made without quibbling on semantics - now, to the next part of my post: what happened the last time someone promised to make man God? …
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Khalid,

The last time someone promised to make man God was when Jesus Christ, the Son of God and the Savior of the world and Intercessor, prayed that it be so and said it would be so. See John 17, then see the book of Revelation and 1 John. The apostle John knew the subject, and knew what the revelation he received meant and what the Savior’s intercessory prayer meant.
 
ParkerD said:
Khalid,

The last time someone promised to make man God was when Jesus Christ, the Son of God and the Savior of the world and Intercessor, prayed that it be so and said it would be so. See John 17, then see the book of Revelation and 1 John. The apostle John knew the subject, and knew what the revelation he received meant and what the Savior’s intercessory prayer meant.
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That is simply DISHONEST. To be LDS is to believe God was once a sinful man and that man can someday be a God. I am begging you, Brother Parker…do NOT mislead people here. Be blessed
 
Brother Parker, I have said a Rosary for you tonight. I pray that God blesses you and leads from a church where it is impossible to be open about its past and its beliefs.

I truly long for a day when you and I can discuss what you have been learning in RCIA.

Be Blessed, Brother
 
Rejoice and be glad, you of Catholics Come Home. You are making an impact.
 
They may copy the folks at “Catholics come home”, but they are unlikely to be anywhere near as successful (IMHO). I dialoged with local LDS leadership for 9 months and have read all of their “Standard works”. Here’s why I believe things are very different.

Protestant Evangelicals and Catholics share a great deal of common doctrine. People can move between our faith communions with abandoning the core of the Christian faith. I can worship wholeheartedly in a Catholic Church and have done so many times. I am sure that there are some Catholics who could say the same about Evangelical churches. I can’t do the same in an LDS church, even though I respect their convictions.

Furthermore, it is not unusual for an evangelical group or ministry to encounter a “lapsed” Catholic and by bringing them into a closer relationship with Christ actually be used to bring them back to their Catholic faith and roots. In fact, I would consider that to be a success. I’m sure that Catholics see some people - after they have been used to bring them closer to Christ - return to their Protestant roots.

In contrast, LDS faith and doctrine are so different that one must completely reject LDS theology to become Catholic or Evangelical. Mormon culture is not always kind to people who do this. To return to Mormonism, they would have to completely reject the orthodox Christianity they sacrificed so much to embrace.

They may have success in reaching LDS folks who have simply become inactive, by Mormons who leave that faith out of conviction that it is false are very unlikely to return.
 
PastorVW said:
They may copy the folks at “Catholics come home”, but they are unlikely to be anywhere near as successful (IMHO). I dialoged with local LDS leadership for 9 months and have read all of their “Standard works”. Here’s why I believe things are very different.

Protestant Evangelicals and Catholics share a great deal of common doctrine. People can move between our faith communions with abandoning the core of the Christian faith. I can worship wholeheartedly in a Catholic Church and have done so many times. I am sure that there are some Catholics who could say the same about Evangelical churches. I can’t do the same in an LDS church, even though I respect their convictions.

Furthermore, it is not unusual for an evangelical group or ministry to encounter a “lapsed” Catholic and by bringing them into a closer relationship with Christ actually be used to bring them back to their Catholic faith and roots. In fact, I would consider that to be a success. I’m sure that Catholics see some people - after they have been used to bring them closer to Christ - return to their Protestant roots.

In contrast, LDS faith and doctrine are so different that one must completely reject LDS theology to become Catholic or Evangelical. Mormon culture is not always kind to people who do this. To return to Mormonism, they would have to completely reject the orthodox Christianity they sacrificed so much to embrace.

They may have success in reaching LDS folks who have simply become inactive, by Mormons who leave that faith out of conviction that it is false are very unlikely to return.
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I agree with you. 🙂
 
PastorVW said:
They may copy the folks at “Catholics come home”, but they are unlikely to be anywhere near as successful (IMHO). I dialoged with local LDS leadership for 9 months and have read all of their “Standard works”. Here’s why I believe things are very different.

Protestant Evangelicals and Catholics share a great deal of common doctrine. People can move between our faith communions with abandoning the core of the Christian faith. I can worship wholeheartedly in a Catholic Church and have done so many times. I am sure that there are some Catholics who could say the same about Evangelical churches. I can’t do the same in an LDS church, even though I respect their convictions.

Furthermore, it is not unusual for an evangelical group or ministry to encounter a “lapsed” Catholic and by bringing them into a closer relationship with Christ actually be used to bring them back to their Catholic faith and roots. In fact, I would consider that to be a success. I’m sure that Catholics see some people - after they have been used to bring them closer to Christ - return to their Protestant roots.

In contrast, LDS faith and doctrine are so different that one must completely reject LDS theology to become Catholic or Evangelical. Mormon culture is not always kind to people who do this. To return to Mormonism, they would have to completely reject the orthodox Christianity they sacrificed so much to embrace.

They may have success in reaching LDS folks who have simply become inactive, by Mormons who leave that faith out of conviction that it is false are very unlikely to return.
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Indeed. Too many can not see the forest for the trees, and we get allegations that Muslims are closer to salvation than Protestants as a result - but, indeed, the differences between Catholicism and Evangelicalism are pretty much over sacraments (the core of the faith, in reality), small differences in OT canon, sola fide, and ecclesiastical authority alone (we even share sola gratia, as per the Joint Declaration), along with some quibbling about perseverance of the saints/imputed v. infused righteousness. Both are orthodox Niceno-Constantinopolo-Chalcedonian communions. Almost all of the differences would appear imperceptible to an outsider, say, a Muslim or a Buddhist; they are homoiousion - of similar essence.

That is, they believe in the Nicene Creed and the Hypostatic Union. Not eternal progression, exaltation, polytheism, Jesus-a-lesser-god, no true atonement, word of wisdom as law, other wacky doctrines, etc.

Mormonism, on the other hand, would appear to be a different religion to even an outsider looking in at Christianity - it shares no Christian doctrine, but only some vocabulary. If that was the definition of “Christian”, Muslims too are Christian (and even more Christian, as they believe in the virgin birth), as they speak of Islamic Jesus (Isa, no different from Biblical Jesus than Mormon Jesus is), the virgin birth, the preaching of Jesus, his prophethood, etc.

As you said, to become a Mormon, one must reject Christianity, and to become a Christian, one must reject Mormonism.
 
Which is also implying what I think, that the Mormons would do best finding better words to describe their religion than using Christian vocabulary and a different name for God, Christ, Holy Spirit…because the reality of Who the Trinity is has been in affect since the beginning.

Christianity is ours, not Mormon’s.

Mormonism is attempting to stake Christianity as its own. It sees the Catholic Church as the adversary, but not the Orthodox…when in fact, historically there was no schism, just different cultures and patriarchs. irregardless, the Church is one, it is holy and universal, Spirit of God with properly chosen successors insuring the apostolic witness of faith continues down through each generation…prior to the Orthodox schism…which is now seriously being addressed and reunification our great prayer.

Mormons don’t believe that. They think most people fell away from Christianity because of Catholic priests and doctrine, not realizing doctrines are the science of Christology, church men doing their job to make sure the true understanding of Christ is realized in and as Church.

Mormons, however, take great liberty to decide and change all the time, yet believe the Apostles of Christ, witnesses of Christ and received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, some how lacked the savvy to chose successors.

The Sacred Mysteries, the Mass…is so totally different from Evangelical worship…that it would be good for Evangelicals who do come to our worship, take a diocesan class on what the liturgy is and does. When it comes to Sunday worship, and ours continues daily fulfilling the prophecy of Melchizedek of the perpetual sacrifice…our worship is truly in a different reality…the Mass is taking us out of this world and into the mystery of God where there is no time but God eternal.

The Mass is the first step in being in union with heaven. Heaven comes to us at the Mass, and the Holy Spirit at Mass brings us closer to God and the throne of heaven, seeking some day to be in union with Him forever.
 
Jerusha said:
Whenever Mormons try to copy Catholics, they make fools of themselves, because they are so unaware of the heart-beat of Catholicism. They have no understanding of what it is about.
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:amen:

As I said in another thread, a Jesuit (whom Scott Hahn studied under) and an honor for me to have studied under, although informally, said upon discussion of Mormonism: it’s a PARODY of the Roman Catholic Church. I never forgot that. Imitation is NOT always a sincere form of flattery especially in the religious realm. As in the garden the serpent repeats the same lies throughout the centuries that keep workin’ on the ignorant & unsuspecting. Why bother to change your MO (motus operandi) when it works over & over again!

Although officially the Catholic Church gained 15 MILLION CONVERTS in 2011, there is always an ocean of waves attacking, hoping to sink the bark of Peter. We will always have many making mistakes, wittingly and unwittingly but that’s the point: No matter how hard man or 'ol hairy legs tries to bring down the Bride of Christ, they just can’t do it :blackeye: and… never will:curtsey:
 
Case in Point

I just read in Catholic World News after posting the previous post, there were 22,104 official Catholic baptisms in mainland China with 3,500 baptisms in Hong Kong just this EASTER alone! Wow!!! 😃 All GLORY TO GOD!!!:heaven:
 
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