Infant baptism and Gods love

[Timothy_Aquasco]

Since we believe in infant baptism, who would be held to task for not getting an infant baptized if the child died? Do we think God would not let the innocent (yes I am aware of original sin) into heaven?

 

[LoyalViews]

Okay. If the baby dies shortly after birth, then it goes either to Limbo, or to Heaven. If the baby lived for a while, but died because of an accident… well, he would go to the same place. If the parent had no intention on baptizing the baby, then the parent would be held accountable, and they would suffer the consequences.

Please, don’t turn this into a debate thread about Limbo, because there already is one of the forum.
Reading the Baltimore Catechism, will also help with ones question.

 

[TheDoctor]

Regardless of if the child dies or not, if the parents are Catholic they have an obligation to have the baby baptized so they would be “held to task”.

As to where unbaptized babies go, look to the Catechism: “As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.” (CCC 1261)

 

[algebra]

Baptism originally in judaism is related to cleansing, usually cleansing a person who has become ritually unclean.

John the baptist, baptized to clean the person spiritually and morally.

The Church baptizes to cleanse us of “original” sin.

If one believes original sin prevents us from being with God, then an unbaptized person is sinful in the eyes of God and is not saved.

However, with all things God, God is just too, and so while we cannot be certain of the fate of unbaptized infants, we can be certain of the mercy and justice of God, meaning to say - whilst it is the call of God, I have faith that God will act in mercy and justice towards these infants.

 

[Timothy_Aquasco]

Do you think I could have the child baptized (my granchild) without the parents concent? Would the church do that? Would the ends justify the means or is the deceit too great?

 

[TheDoctor]

To echo what Algebra posted above, remember always that God is not bound by his sacraments, we are. God can do, well, anything because He is God.

My personal belief is that unbaptized infants, especially those from abortions, go to sleep in death and wake up cradled in the arms of this little Jewish woman named Mary, who puts them into the arms of her Son.

 

[TheDoctor]

Do you think I could have the child baptized (my granchild) without the parents concent? Would the church do that? Would the ends justify the means or is the deceit too great?

Tim, you might want to use the search function as this has been discussed on the forums and in the Ask An Apologist threads.

In short, if the baby was in danger of death, you *could *baptize. Barring that, the Church will not baptize without the parents consent, as part of baptism is the responsibility to raise the child in the faith.

If the parents won’t agree to raise child Catholic or allow you to do it, the best advice I can give you is to pray and to be a solid Catholic rock in his/her life growing up. Your living the gospel message to them may one day yield fruit.

It sounds like a very tough situation. I’ll keep you in my prayers.

 

[algebra]

Would the ends justify the means or is the deceit too great?

You can if you wish and in an emergency (this might be considered one) baptize the child yourself.

You do not have to have a priest involved.

Huzzah! got to tell Fr. Dan at least some of that drilling of the catechism caught.

 

[algebra]

I also have to be more careful with my responses me thinks.

Warning everyone, I am a new Catholic, from a jewish background. I could lets of stuff wrong!

 

[TheDoctor]

I also have to be more careful with my responses me thinks.

Warning everyone, I am a new Catholic, from a jewish background. I could lets of stuff wrong!

This one you got right.

Welcome home.

 

[algebra]

Welcome home.

Thank you, it is amazing the amount of symbology and ideology that is transmitted from Judaism into Catholicism.

Sometimes I think that every Catholic should be made to study Talmud for at least a year, it would tremendously deepen your understanding of Catholicism.

Its almost like Catholicism is an offshoot of Judaism, as opposed to another religion.

 

[TheDoctor]

Thank you, it is amazing the amount of symbology and ideology that is transmitted from Judaism into Catholicism.

Sometimes I think that every Catholic should be made to study Talmud for at least a year, it would tremendously deepen your understanding of Catholicism.

Its almost like Catholicism is an offshoot of Judaism, as opposed to another religion.

Yeah, almost as if it was founded by some Jewish guy and his 12 Jewish pals. As the Catechism says:

**839 ** “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329
**840 ** And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

 

[LoyalViews]

Tim, you might want to use the search function as this has been discussed on the forums and in the Ask An Apologist threads.

In short, if the baby was in danger of death, you *could *baptize. Barring that, the Church will not baptize without the parents consent, as part of baptism is the responsibility to raise the child in the faith.

If the parents won’t agree to raise child Catholic or allow you to do it, the best advice I can give you is to pray and to be a solid Catholic rock in his/her life growing up. Your living the gospel message to them may one day yield fruit.

It sounds like a very tough situation. I’ll keep you in my prayers.

And you should also try your hardest to convince them. If the baby is in danger of death, and before he dies, only if a priest in unavailable, you can baptize him yourself, the baptism certificate will be accepted as valid.