Infant Baptism - Laying out the facts

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It is true that in this passage Peter promises that the “gift of the Holy Spirit” is promised not only to the adults, but to “their children.” This verse is used by many to argue on this basis that baptism must be administered to children of believing parents.

In my opinion, this interpretation reads too much into the text. We must note that Peter goes on to say that the promise is “for all who are far away.” But no one interprets Peter to be suggesting that we should therefore baptize all Gentiles.
Actually we do interpret this to mean to baptize all Gentiles in accordance with Jesus words to teach and baptize all nations (Matt 28:19).
The promise is for them in the sense that God wants to pour out his Spirit upon them (Ac 2:16). But they only become recipients of the promise — and we should only baptize them — when they make a personal decision to repent and believe in Jesus Christ. This is why Peter immediately adds that the promise is for “everyone whom the Lord our God calls to him.” It is not for everyone in general. It is for everyone who will repent and believe, and thus for everyone whom God calls.
This is true in a sense because you can not baptize someone who rejects Jesus. Neither as Catholics would we baptize a child who is not going to be brought up in the Catholic faith.
The same holds true for Peter’s assertion that the promise is not only for the adults in Peter’s audience, but for their children. God wants their children to receive the Holy Spirit, but the promise is only applied to them, and we should only baptize them, when they personally repent and believe.
So a child has to sin before they can be baptized in order to have something to repent of? So it is impossible for a child to receive the Holy Spirit until after they have sinned? That doesn’t make sense to me.
Defenders of infant baptism argue that the references to households being baptized in Acts suggests that infants were baptized along with adults (Ac 11:13-14; 16:15; 30-34; 18:8). There is no reason to assume this, however. When considering recorded history at this time it was the norm that all servants were included in a “household” in the ancient Roman world. Children, however, generally were not. This seems to be Luke’s perspective, for in the same context in which he speaks about households being baptized, he speaks about households being taught, believing and rejoicing (Ac 16:32; 34; 18:8).
Obviously they were not households made up entirely of infants and small children, so yes the adults would be taught, and it would be they who believed and rejoiced. That does not mean that the children themselves would not have been baptized along with the rest of the house.
Again, it’s important to notice that every example of someone “actually” being baptized in the New Testament was of a person old enough to decide to follow Christ on their own. Never do we read about infants being baptized.
For example, it was only after the Samaritans “believed Philip” as he preached the good news that “they were baptized, both men and women” (Ac 8:12). It was only after the Ethiopian eunuch embraced the good news about Jesus that he was baptized (Ac 8:35-36). The apostle Paul was baptized after he encountered Jesus and obeyed the heavenly vision (Ac 9:18).

Even Peter, he commanded Cornelius and his household to be baptized only after he saw evidence of their faith in Jesus Christ (Ac 10:44-48). It was only after God opened Lydia’s heart and she believed that she and her household were baptized (Ac 16:14-15). And it was only after the disciples of John the Baptist accept Paul’s teaching about Jesus that they were baptized and received the Holy Spirit (Ac 19:5-6). Without exception baptism follows faith and constitutes the first act of discipleship made by a responsible person who has decided to turn from their sinful way of life and submit their life to Jesus.
No one argues that the adults had to have faith, repent, then be baptized. That only makes sense. They would then bring up their children into the faith. That makes sense also. Your argument that the Bible only shows adults being baptized would also imply that only adults can be baptized. Are there any examples in the Bible that have a 10 year old being baptized? No there isn’t. Is baptism only limited to adults then?

Just as a child has no choice in being created, he also has no choice in falling under the sin of Adam (Original Sin). As the bible says, you must be born again with water and the Spirit. When a child is baptized, he is reconciled to God and the Original Sin of Adam is washed away. There is no need for a child to repent of Original Sin because he himself did not commit the offence.

As can be seen throughout scriptures, baptism makes us members of the body of Christ. We become heirs through adoption. I find it really strange to think that God commanded 8 day olds to be part of His family in the old covenant, but in the new covenant he would refuse to have children in his family until they “sinned and then repented”. That makes no sense to me. The new covenant should be better than the old covenant, but from your viewpoint it seems to me that the old covenant was better for infants.
 
So a child has to sin before they can be baptized in order to have something to repent of? So it is impossible for a child to receive the Holy Spirit until after they have sinned? That doesn’t make sense to me.
Just to give this Scriptural backing, I’ll point to Luke 1:15, where St John the Baptist is promised to be filled with the Spirit in the womb, where he obviously couldn’t have sinned.
 
The same holds true for Peter’s assertion that the promise is not only for the adults in Peter’s audience, but for their children. God wants their children to receive the Holy Spirit, but the promise is only applied to them, and we should only baptize them, when they personally repent and believe.
 
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JonNC:
Where is there an explicit condemnation of infants being baptized in scripture?
Excellent point. Not only is it nowhere explicitly condemned, it is not implicitly condemned either. In fact the scant evidence we have really tilts in favor of infant baptism.

It is also something of serious consequence and weight to deny children baptism. Based on what? Opinions of men 1500 years after infant baptism was a fixed and regular feature of Christianity, and continues to be, all over the world. :eek:
 
It is true that in this passage Peter promises that the “gift of the Holy Spirit” is promised not only to the adults, but to “their children.” This verse is used by many to argue on this basis that baptism must be administered to children of believing parents.

In my opinion, this interpretation reads too much into the text. We must note that Peter goes on to say that the promise is “for all who are far away.” But no one interprets Peter to be suggesting that we should therefore baptize all Gentiles. The promise is for them in the sense that God wants to pour out his Spirit upon them (Ac 2:16). But they only become recipients of the promise — and we should only baptize them — when they make a personal decision to repent and believe in Jesus Christ. This is why Peter immediately adds that the promise is for “everyone whom the Lord our God calls to him.” It is not for everyone in general. It is for everyone who will repent and believe, and thus for everyone whom God calls.

The same holds true for Peter’s assertion that the promise is not only for the adults in Peter’s audience, but for their children. God wants their children to receive the Holy Spirit, but the promise is only applied to them, and we should only baptize them, when they personally repent and believe.

Defenders of infant baptism argue that the references to households being baptized in Acts suggests that infants were baptized along with adults (Ac 11:13-14; 16:15; 30-34; 18:8). There is no reason to assume this, however. When considering recorded history at this time it was the norm that all servants were included in a “household” in the ancient Roman world. Children, however, generally were not. This seems to be Luke’s perspective, for in the same context in which he speaks about households being baptized, he speaks about households being taught, believing and rejoicing (Ac 16:32; 34; 18:8).

Again, it’s important to notice that every example of someone “actually” being baptized in the New Testament was of a person old enough to decide to follow Christ on their own. Never do we read about infants being baptized.
For example, it was only after the Samaritans “believed Philip” as he preached the good news that “they were baptized, both men and women” (Ac 8:12). It was only after the Ethiopian eunuch embraced the good news about Jesus that he was baptized (Ac 8:35-36). The apostle Paul was baptized after he encountered Jesus and obeyed the heavenly vision (Ac 9:18).

Even Peter, he commanded Cornelius and his household to be baptized only after he saw evidence of their faith in Jesus Christ (Ac 10:44-48). It was only after God opened Lydia’s heart and she believed that she and her household were baptized (Ac 16:14-15). And it was only after the disciples of John the Baptist accept Paul’s teaching about Jesus that they were baptized and received the Holy Spirit (Ac 19:5-6). Without exception baptism follows faith and constitutes the first act of discipleship made by a responsible person who has decided to turn from their sinful way of life and submit their life to Jesus.
In Greg Boyd’s opinion I think you mean!

There is nothing in scripture condemning infant Baptism, and history shows it has always been practiced in the Apostolic Church. Believers baptism is a modern doctrine of man, which is a consequence of sola scripture.
 
So I suppose the “none are righteous” “all have sinned” thing doesn’t actually apply to anyone under a certain age?
Using your same logic, and just to give it a twist, does “none are righteous” “all have sinned” thing not apply to the Virgin Mary.

And if Mary had to be a sinless vessel in order for our sinless Savior to be brought into human form, wouldn’t Mary’ mother have to be sinless, and so on and so on…?
 
Using your same logic, and just to give it a twist, does “none are righteous” “all have sinned” thing not apply to the Virgin Mary.

And if Mary had to be a sinless vessel in order for our sinless Savior to be brought into human form, wouldn’t Mary’ mother have to be sinless, and so on and so on…?
Not exactly. Catholics believe that original sin is transmitted by the father so the Blessed Virgin Mary is irrelevant. We do not believe that she was preserved from the stain of sin because it was necessary, but because it was fitting. Secondly, Blessed Mary was subject to the curse of original sin, only she was preserved from it by a unique prevenient grace from her conception, so we would not even call her a true exception. “All have sinned” taken to the letter can only refer to original sin, not actual sin, because infants, who lack reason, cannot sin themselves. Therefore, there is no reason to suppose that Mary sinned on that account.

Blessed Mary is not a true exception to “none is righteous” (see Ps. 14 & 53) either because if this taken to refer to man’s fallen state, Mary was just in need of grace as any other person. She just received grace earlier than anyone else and in a more extraordinary manner. If it is taken simply to refer to those who are unjust in God’s eyes, it does not apply to Mary even taken literally because she was a Christian par excellence who did, filled with the grace of the Holy Spirit, seek God. In this sense, some actually are righteous, which is evident because the Lord speaks of “my people” (Ps. 14:4).

Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! when the LORD bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad. (Ps. 14:7)

Taken in its primary sense, the unrighteous probably are not intended at all to include God’s people, the Israelites, who awaited salvation from their captivity, but rather their Babylonian captors primarily and the other pagan nations secondarily. Taken in a more Christological sense, God’s people is the Church, which was taken from the captivity of sin. If such passages are properly understood according to their context, there is no need to speak of exceptions.

Will you answer my question about the fate of infants, who have no faith of their own, and how you reconcile your beliefs with the Holy Scriptures?
 
Using your same logic, and just to give it a twist, does “none are righteous” “all have sinned” thing not apply to the Virgin Mary.

And if Mary had to be a sinless vessel in order for our sinless Savior to be brought into human form, wouldn’t Mary’ mother have to be sinless, and so on and so on…?
Answering a question with a question.:rolleyes: First you are not using the same logic and it is hardly a twist. All have sinned cannot possible mean “all” For we know that Jesus never sinned. It could not mean a child who dies at birth. So the Scripture does not literally mean all. You avoided the question does it apply to anyone under a certain age.

Why would Mary’s mother have to be sinless she didn’t carry God in her body? Mary didn’t have to be sinless. God chose her to be and it is fitting that there be a second Eve who is spotless and perfect obedience to the will of the Father
Justin Martyr [100-165 AD] Dialogue with Trypho (Chapters 48-108)
“[Jesus] became man by the Virgin so that the course which was taken by disobedience in the beginning through the agency of the serpent might be also the very course by which it would be put down. Eve, a virgin and undefiled, conceived the word of the serpent and bore disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy when the angel Gabriel announced to her the glad tidings that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her and the power of the Most High would overshadow her, for which reason the Holy One being born of her is the Son of God. And she replied ‘Be it done unto me according to your word’ [Luke 1:38]” (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 100 [A.D. 155]).
 
It is true that in this passage Peter promises that the “gift of the Holy Spirit” is promised not only to the adults, but to “their children.” This verse is used by many to argue on this basis that baptism must be administered to children of believing parents.

In my opinion, this interpretation reads too much into the text. We must note that Peter goes on to say that the promise is “for all who are far away.” But no one interprets Peter to be suggesting that we should therefore baptize all Gentiles. The promise is for them in the sense that God wants to pour out his Spirit upon them (Ac 2:16). But they only become recipients of the promise — and we should only baptize them — when they make a personal decision to repent and believe in Jesus Christ. This is why Peter immediately adds that the promise is for “everyone whom the Lord our God calls to him.” It is not for everyone in general. It is for everyone who will repent and believe, and thus for everyone whom God calls.

The same holds true for Peter’s assertion that the promise is not only for the adults in Peter’s audience, but for their children. God wants their children to receive the Holy Spirit, but the promise is only applied to them, and we should only baptize them, when they personally repent and believe.

Defenders of infant baptism argue that the references to households being baptized in Acts suggests that infants were baptized along with adults (Ac 11:13-14; 16:15; 30-34; 18:8). There is no reason to assume this, however. When considering recorded history at this time it was the norm that all servants were included in a “household” in the ancient Roman world. Children, however, generally were not. This seems to be Luke’s perspective, for in the same context in which he speaks about households being baptized, he speaks about households being taught, believing and rejoicing (Ac 16:32; 34; 18:8).

Again, it’s important to notice that every example of someone “actually” being baptized in the New Testament was of a person old enough to decide to follow Christ on their own. Never do we read about infants being baptized.
For example, it was only after the Samaritans “believed Philip” as he preached the good news that “they were baptized, both men and women” (Ac 8:12). It was only after the Ethiopian eunuch embraced the good news about Jesus that he was baptized (Ac 8:35-36). The apostle Paul was baptized after he encountered Jesus and obeyed the heavenly vision (Ac 9:18).

Even Peter, he commanded Cornelius and his household to be baptized only after he saw evidence of their faith in Jesus Christ (Ac 10:44-48). It was only after God opened Lydia’s heart and she believed that she and her household were baptized (Ac 16:14-15). And it was only after the disciples of John the Baptist accept Paul’s teaching about Jesus that they were baptized and received the Holy Spirit (Ac 19:5-6). Without exception baptism follows faith and constitutes the first act of discipleship made by a responsible person who has decided to turn from their sinful way of life and submit their life to Jesus.
Actually - in this you are quite mistaken - there are no specifics regarding the totality an ‘entire household’ … As many have alluded to here - households included infants and the scriptural passages make no mention of exclusions [ie children whether infants or those under the age of reason] …

Point of fact - just as with circumcision where an entire household [Abraham’s for example] was commanded to be circumcised - this included infants and servants/slaves … So when the NT reports on entire households being baptized that means men, women, servants, slaves, children and infants - all based upon the faith of the head of the household … We saw this very clearly referenced with circumcision in Genesis … it is equally clear in the NT unless one is just unwilling to acknowledge it …

Now you can imagine that int he infancy of Christianity - most Christians coming to the faith were adults… however as Christianity grew that changes - those already Christian procreate and their children are brought into the Christian family through baptism …

This is clearly the point of the circumcision rite … All males were circumcised - including Ishmael as a young teen and the servants and slaves [how many do you think submitted willingly to this or made this as a free ‘choice’?] … however moving ahead from that time - it was to occur at the age of 8 days … did that mean that no adult ever would be required to submit - no … if they came into the household as an adult they would be … Ditto with Baptism …

FYI - you still have not adequately answered the other posts about the ECF quotes regrading baptism
 
I have never heard such a claim before would you please document it?
Sure. I am not certain whether it is a dogma of the Church, but it is the traditional teaching. The primary reason is that this interpretation makes the best sense of the words of St. Paul. St. Thomas Aquinas addresses the question in the Summa Theologiae.

The Apostle says (Romans 5:12): “By one man sin entered into this world.” Now if the woman would have transmitted original sin to her children, he should have said that it entered by two, since both of them sinned, or rather that it entered by a woman, since she sinned first. Therefore original sin is transmitted to the children, not by the mother, but by the father.
-ST, I-II, 81, 5
 
In Greg Boyd’s opinion I think you mean!

There is nothing in scripture condemning infant Baptism, and history shows it has always been practiced in the Apostolic Church. Believers baptism is a modern doctrine of man, which is a consequence of sola scripture.
No…I mean in my opinion. Greg Boyd has laid out a very compelling argument on his website, which I used, and also which I do not believe has been refuted on this forum. This is a forum and not an academic paper or published article. Greg said it much better than I could. In addition to scripture I can provide sources that I have used if you like.

As far as scripture not condemning infant Baptism argument…this is flawed logic. At an extreme, the scripture does not condemn every specific evil. That does not mean I can try and find one that is not mentioned and then use the fact that it is not in the scriptures to indulge in that evil.

And you are right, it does not mention infant baptism. The scriptures teaches belief first and then baptism.
 
No one argues that the adults had to have faith, repent, then be baptized. That only makes sense. They would then bring up their children into the faith. That makes sense also. **Your argument that the Bible only shows adults being baptized would also imply that only adults can be baptized. ** Are there any examples in the Bible that have a 10 year old being baptized? No there isn’t. Is baptism only limited to adults then?
This is not my argument at all and is not correct as you have stated it. The fact that those baptized in the bible are adults is not the relevant point. The point that matters is they believed first and then were baptized.

I would ask my Catholic brothers in Christ to do the same as they ask me. Research issues such as infant baptism, salvation by works, OSAS, etc. Keep an open mind, avoid confirmation bias, and pray Colossians 1: 9-10 - “that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding, so that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to Him, bearing fruit in every good work and growing in the knowledge of God.”

If those on this thread are agreeable, let’s put the infant baptism issue to rest and move on to OSAS. I know this is a hot topic and should be an enjoyable discussion.
 
Please read the below.

Do the “Household Baptisms” Justify Infant Baptism?

by Caleb Colley, M.L.A.

On occasion, advocates of infant baptism appeal to Acts 10, Acts 16, and 1 Corinthians 1 for proof that infant baptism is scriptural. Acts 10:24-48 relates the account of Cornelius and his “relatives and close friends” hearing the Gospel and being baptized. Acts 16 includes the accounts of two sets of baptisms: (1) the baptism of the members of Lydia’s family (verse 15); and (2) the baptism of the Philippian jailer and “all his family” (verse 33). Paul revealed that he baptized members of the household of Stephanas (1 Corinthians 1:16). These are the so-called “household baptisms” (see Coffman, 1977, p. 320; Mare, 1984, pp. 192-193). Proponents of infant baptism assume that there were children in Cornelius’ house, Lydia’s family, the jailer’s house, and Stephanas’ house, and that the infants were baptized. Since there is no mention of infants in any of these passages, those who use these passages to justify infant baptism base their claims upon two assumptions: (1) infants were present in the households; and (2) the contexts of Acts 10 and 16 allow for the baptism of infants as part of “household baptisms.”

In each example of “household baptism,” the people who were baptized were ones who had been taught what they needed to do in order to receive salvation (Acts 10:34-43; 16:14, 32; 1 Corinthians 1:16-18; 16:15-16). They were the people who could hear and understand the Word of God (Acts 10:44), believe (10:31-33), and devote themselves to the ministry of the saints (1 Corinthians 16:15). The absence of the noun “belief,” and the verb “believe,” in some of the conversion accounts, does not necessarily imply that the ones who were baptized did not, or could not, believe. Also, the context of the household conversions does not demand that any infants were baptized. Yet, some insist that infants must have been present in the “households,” and that the infants must have been baptized.

Lydia did not live in Philippi (she was from Thyatira, on the other side of the Aegean Sea). Since she was traveling, she probably did not bring her children with her, if she had any. Because oikos seems to denote “property” in this instance, it was probably Lydia’s servants who were baptized (Lydia certainly was wealthy enough to have servants; see Jackson, 2000, pp. 201-02; Lenski, 1944, p. 660). Notice also that, in the case of Lydia’s conversion, the evangelists spoke to a group of women who had “come together,” indicating that the members of Lydia’s household could have been found within that group of women (the very group who was praying and who heard Paul’s message; see Coffman, 1977, p. 313; Lenski, 1944, p. 659).

Some allege that Lydia’s family members were baptized, not because they believed, but only because they were in Lydia’s family, while Lydia herself did believe (e.g., Barnes, 1972, p. 241). This allegation rests on the fact that Acts 16:14-15 denotes Lydia’s belief, but does not specifically reveal that her family believed. The Bible clearly teaches, however, that belief must precede baptism (see Mark 16:16; Acts 8:37; Romans 10:10-11; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Ephesians 1:21), and that a sinner cannot be forgiven of sin based on the faith of another (Matthew 12:36; Romans 14:12; 1 Peter 2:7; 4:5; 1 John 3:23).

Furthermore, Acts 16:34 (part of the account of a “household baptism”) reports that the Philippian jailer’s family, at the time of the “household baptism,” was made up entirely of “believers” (excluding infants), and the accounts of both Cornelius’ and the jailer’s conversions specifically indicate that candidates for baptism were those who had “heard the word” (Acts 10:44,47). When inspired writers wrote about “hearing” the Word of God, “hearing” often denoted not only the recognition of audible sounds, of which infants are capable, but also understanding the message, of which infants are incapable (see Deuteronomy 5:1; Romans 10:17; Job 13:17; Luke 14:35). The contexts of Acts 10 and Acts 16 imply that meaning of the verb “hear” (akouo).

Some base their claim that infants of the jailer’s household were baptized, upon the assumption that there would not have been enough water in a jail to immerse adults. Thus, they say, sprinkling was the mode of baptism, which would have been appropriate for infant baptism. However, Acts 16 suggests that Paul and Silas were not in the jail at the time of the major part of the teaching and the baptism, because they had been “brought out”—likely out of the prison itself—and taken to a place where the prisoners’ stripes could be washed. It was at this place that the baptisms took place, so it is an imposition on the text to imply that Paul and Silas did not have access to enough water for immersion.

There are other examples of household conversions, whose contexts attest to the fact that, when “households” of people were baptized, infants were not baptized. When the inspired writers mentioned the so-called “household baptisms,” they said that all believers in the households were baptized. To assert otherwise is to put an unnecessary strain on the text, and to teach that which contradicts unambiguous, definitive Bible teaching (see Mark 16:16; Acts 8:37-38; Romans 10:10-11).

REFERENCES

Barnes, Albert (1972 reprint), Notes on the New Testament: Acts (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker).

Coffman, James Burton (1977), Commentary on Acts (Abilene, TX: ACU Press).

Jackson, Wayne (2000), The Acts of the Apostles: From Jerusalem to Rome (Stockton, CA: Courier Publications).

Lenski, Robert C.H. (1944), The Interpretation of the Acts of the Apostles (Minneapolis, MN: Augsburg).

Mare, W. Harold (1984), The Expositor’s Bible Commentary: 1 Corinthians, ed. Frank E. Gaebelein (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan).
 
I would ask my Catholic brothers in Christ to do the same as they ask me. Research issues such as infant baptism, salvation by works, OSAS, etc. Keep an open mind, avoid confirmation bias, and pray Colossians 1: 9-10 - “that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding, so that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to Him, bearing fruit in every good work and growing in the knowledge of God.”
I would ask you, my protestant brother to do the same. Avoid the Protestant anti-Catholic hatred and research this very site to see what we believe. Realize that Sola-scriptura (scripture alone ) is heresy. The bible it’s self says so.

“So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth (tradition) or by letter (scripture).” 2 thes 2:15

The bible is silent on the issue of infant baptism. SILENT. Are there scripure passages you can use to Disprove it ? Yes. Are there scripture passages that we can use to prove it? yes. And so no ground is made.

But since the early Christians devoted themselves to the teachings of the apostles, the eucharist and prayer not scripture (acts 2:42)

and since we are to adhere to all the teachings of the apostles not just those in scripture(2 thes 2:15):

who built the church (the Apostles) which is the pillar foundation of truth 1 tim. 3:15:

And since we are to avoid personal interpretation of scripture 2 pet 3:16:

And since the only churches that were around from the beginning (the Catholic Church and the Orthodox churches) agree that:

And the early church fathers from the 1st 2nd and 3rd centuries testify that:

INFANT BAPTISM WAS HANDED DOWN BY THE APOSTLES! All Christians should accept infant baptism
 
I am not changing anything. There are many examples of man in scripture trying to change Christ’s teaching. This is why I do not rely on mans tradition. I prefer to use the writings of the earliest church leaders…those who wrote the scriptures.
So since Jesus said we must be born again from water to go to heaven in John 3:3-5, if it is true that only those who can confess and believe in Jesus be baptized, what about people with Down Syndrome, or have a serious mental problem, or their a vegetable. Do they forgo baptism? B/c it contradicts Jesus from John 3:3-5
 
Will you answer my question about the fate of infants, who have no faith of their own, and how you reconcile your beliefs with the Holy Scriptures?
Mark 16:16 states: “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

According to Scitor:
  • Infants cannot believe.
  • Therefore, infants cannot be baptized.
According to Scitor’s logic:
  • Infants cannot believe.
  • Therefore, infants are damned.
This is the only conclusion if we take this verse to the letter without any critical thought. Evidently, Scitor prefers to insist on an uncritical literalistic interpretation to the first part of Christ’s statement, but yet cannot bring himself to apply the same standard to the second part. It is telling that he will not even address it.

Scitor, you cannot cast aside the words of the Lord and be his disciple. Laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men. When you die, will have to give an account before Almighty God for everything you did. Your willful ignorance will not save you then. Exercise due diligence while you can.
 
Mark 16:16 states: “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

According to Scitor:
  • Infants cannot believe.
  • Therefore, infants cannot be baptized.
According to Scitor’s logic:
  • Infants cannot believe.
  • Therefore, infants are damned.
This is the only conclusion if we take this verse to the letter without any critical thought. Evidently, Scitor prefers to insist on an uncritical literalistic interpretation to the first part of Christ’s statement, but yet cannot bring himself to apply the same standard to the second part. It is telling that he will not even address it.

Scitor, you cannot cast aside the words of the Lord and be his disciple. Laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men. When you die, will have to give an account before Almighty God for everything you did. Your willful ignorance will not save you then. Exercise due diligence while you can.
People like the guy who started this thread does not make sense. I have asked him several times, people who have down syndrome or some sort of mental problem, most will never be able to understand, they will never be able to believe in God, what about them do they forgo baptism?
 
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Scitor:
Do the “Household Baptisms” Justify Infant Baptism?

by Caleb Colley, M.L.A.
Colley’s arguments are tendentious and prejudiced by the belief that infant baptism is wrong. They are not strictly objective arguments, because if they were then the Scriptural passages he cites can just as easily by interpreted in favor of infant baptism.

So the problem can NOT be solved with explicit Scripture, as there is none. Therefore we have to consider the entire Bible, the entire parallel that Chrisitianity had with the chosen people and their own practices as written down in Scripture. How the practice of infant baptism was foreshadowed by the Hebrew practice of infant circumcision, and how that is justified by both Judaism today and Catholicism today. IOW, the practice of building entire doctrines and even denominations based on this passage or that passage is categorically wrong and contrary to the Spirit of God.

But that’s not all. We must also consider the beliefs of the early Christians as witnessed by the early Church fathers, and the teachings of the Church, as they have been documented by councils and other documentary evidence.

IOW, it is IRRESPONSIBLE to abdicate our own powers of reason to search for the TRUTH, because someone has laid out a simple solution based on specious reasonings over a select few Scriptural passages.
 
People like the guy who started this thread does not make sense. I have asked him several times, people who have down syndrome or some sort of mental problem, most will never be able to understand, they will never be able to believe in God, what about them do they forgo baptism?
In summary of this thread, nearly all the “facts” Scitor has laid out in this thread have been shown to be objective falsehoods. Yet he has not the humility to even admit this much. Instead, he prefers to dwell on the supposed ambiguity of the term “households” and the requirement of belief for baptism, ignoring the requirement of belief (not to mention baptism) for salvation. If this is how he always conducts himself, I see no purpose of discussing OSAS with him. What purpose is discussion with someone who holds on to contradictions to avoid admitting that they are wrong? Let him think what he wants. He will be judged by the words of the Lord, that he perverts to his own fancy, on the last day.
 
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