Infant Baptism...Non-catholic parent...Bad Cannon Law advice?

[Honour]

In my humble opinion, I believe that it’s the pastor’s decision. I think that they don’t know or realize that you really are willing and committed to raise your child within the teachings of the Catholic Church. Another thing I thought of was this: In many parishes I’ve been in they usually want to see if you’re registered in that parish as a regular member. It deals with paperwork that needs to be done in the Archdiocese in order to administer the sacrament and issue a Baptism certificate. Registering yourself in a parish tells them you’re serious about being a regular member and committed to raising your child with the Catholic faith and teachings. I would ask someone in the Parish Office of the church you want to baptize your baby and ask the secretary there what you need to do to have your baby baptized in the church. Also ask the priest if you should wait until after you’re confirmed or maybe a week or so before to baptize the child.

Good luck!

Thank you and yes…I asked the secretary when I called to set up the meeting about registering. She directed me to the correct forms and I brought them completed to the meeting so I could be registered. I also inquired about Baptism prep and let the priest know that we would be attending.

 

[Honour]

This is actually true. We are actually not allowed to baptize children into the Catholic faith if they don’t have Catholic parents. When you become Catholic, your children can be baptized at the same time, or shortly afterwards, with their father’s consent.

-]Where do you get that…because it is NOT in the catechism or the cannon law that I can find anywhere. Reference please./-]

Ugg…that sounded wrong. What I meant was…Can you please explain further or let me know where this information is coming from…I really want to do the right thing here. But from what I am reading it seems that there should not be a problem with her baptism, so I am seeking more information. Thanks.

 

[aemcpa]

This is actually true. We are actually not allowed to baptize children into the Catholic faith if they don’t have Catholic parents. When you become Catholic, your children can be baptized at the same time, or shortly afterwards, with their father’s consent.

She won’t need their father’s consent.

 

[Honour]

YES!!! The sacrament of baptism places a mark on one’s soul, and the person is thus more obligated to God than one who is not baptized; this the Church, *the Body of Christ, *protects those who do not have a high likelihood of being Catholic by refusing baptism.

I would argue you use of “high likelihood of being Catholic”.

Can. 868 §1. For an infant to be baptized licitly:

1/ the parents or at least one of them or the person who legitimately takes their place must consent;

2/ there must be a founded hope that the infant will be brought up in the Catholic religion; if such hope is altogether lacking, the baptism is to be delayed according to the prescripts of particular law after the parents have been advised about the reason.

Emphasis added. To me this reads that the baptism should NOT be delayed unless there is a high likelihood that the baby would NOT be raised Catholic. But yes, I understand this is the priests decision, I would like to talk to him more about it.

 

[jmcrae]

She won’t need their father’s consent.

Yes she will. They’re his children, too. We assume he will share in raising them, and that he will need to be aware and not opposed that he is to share in raising them Catholic.

 

[1ke]

Yes she will. They’re his children, too. We assume he will share in raising them, and that he will need to be aware and not opposed that he is to share in raising them Catholic.

From a canonical standpoint, she does not need the father’s consent or involvement.

Perhaps you are talking about from a civil perspective.

 

[Honour]

She won’t need their father’s consent.

True.

Can. 868 §1. For an infant to be baptized licitly:

1/ the parents or at least one of them or the person who legitimately takes their place must consent;

Only one parent must consent.

Cann. 868 §2. An infant of Catholic parents or even of non-Catholic parents is baptized licitly in danger of death even against the will of the parents.

None if the baby is in danger of death.

 

[Honour]

Yes she will. They’re his children, too. We assume he will share in raising them, and that he will need to be aware and not opposed that he is to share in raising them Catholic.

He consents…but NO I do not need his consent…the cannon law is clear on that one.

 

[jmcrae]

-]Where do you get that…because it is NOT in the catechism or the cannon law that I can find anywhere. Reference please./-]

Ugg…that sounded wrong. What I meant was…Can you please explain further or let me know where this information is coming from…I really want to do the right thing here. But from what I am reading it seems that there should not be a problem with her baptism, so I am seeking more information. Thanks.

I work at a Catholic Church, and these are the instructions my boss (the pastor of the parish where I work) is giving me with regard to parents seeking baptism for their children. They originate with the Diocese in the office of canon law; my boss isn’t just making these things up. I don’t read canon law myself, so I don’t know the references, and in any case, the canon law has to be read as a whole; it isn’t like a list of traffic regulations, so it would be easy to make mistakes in taking things out of context.

But the Church assumes that non-Catholic parents would prefer to raise their children in the religion that they are actually practicing at home, rather than have the children be of a different religion than themselves.

 

[jmcrae]

Only one parent must consent.

What if one parent wants to raise the children Catholic and the other wants to raise them Jewish?

If one parent is absent, then it makes sense that only the remaining parent would consent (because if the canon law said that both parents had to consent then you would have to track down the absent parent, or dig him out of his grave, etc.), but if both parents are present, then both must consent, since both of them are raising the children - hopefully together, and not at cross-purposes.

 

[jmcrae]

He consents…but NO I do not need his consent…the cannon law is clear on that one.

What does your pastor say? What does the person in charge of interpreting the law in your Diocese say? We can’t read Canon Law the same way we read traffic regulations.

 

[aemcpa]

What if one parent wants to raise the children Catholic and the other wants to raise them Jewish?

If one parent is absent, then it makes sense that only the remaining parent would consent (because if the canon law said that both parents had to consent then you would have to track down the absent parent, or dig him out of his grave, etc.), but if both parents are present, then both must consent, since both of them are raising the children - hopefully together, and not at cross-purposes.

Canon Law does not require both parents to consent. If the bishop does, that is another issue, but I would argue that he does not have the authority to forbid what the Pope allows.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

He consents…but NO I do not need his consent…the cannon law is clear on that one.

But here’s the thing, Canon Law only applies to those who are Catholic, you are not. At least not yet.

And this, I believe is the issue. Canon Law does not protect you, because you are outside of the Church, but the priest is bound by the Law, and the Law says there must be a “well-founded hope” that the child will be raised in the faith. I would think that neither parent being Catholic would pretty much make that impossible.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Actually, he didn’t have a problem until after HE talked to a cannon lawyer…not me. And now he says it can’t be done because of cannon law.

And now I feel stupid for not being able to read. I don’t think it changes the answer of “do what your priest says” though, especially now that he’s consulted with a cannon lawyer. He now has both the information specific to your case, and advice about cannon law, and - even if it’s not the answer you were hoping for - has come up with an answer.

 

[St_Francis]

I would argue you use of “high likelihood of being Catholic”.

Can. 868 §1. For an infant to be baptized licitly:

Ummmm, first they say there **must **be a founded hope… iow, the hope must be founded on something–it must be founded on something tangible. Altho *you *understand your determination to raise your children Catholic, they have seen so many people come and go… so many people who hold such crazy things against the Church (I am related to some of those people ), that they cannot be sure enough without a tangible thing on which to found the hope.

Consider this (sorry to use such an awful analogy): a police officer stops someone for drunk driving. The man says, well, just leave me here with my car and I won’t drive for an hour. The man may be perfectly clear that he won’t drive for an hour, but the police don’t know that; there’s no way they will agree.

I hope everything goes well for you

 

[Honour]

. He now has both the information specific to your case, and advice about cannon law, and - even if it’s not the answer you were hoping for - has come up with an answer.

IF that’s true then yes, I have my answer, but I would really like to sit down and discuss the who,e thing with him again…I don’t know if he really understands my desire to have my children receive the sacraments. I also don’t know what the lawyer told him, so I don’t know wheat advice he got.

 

[Honour]

I work at a Catholic Church, and these are the instructions my boss (the pastor of the parish where I work) is giving me with regard to parents seeking baptism for their children. They originate with the Diocese in the office of canon law; my boss isn’t just making these things up. I don’t read canon law myself, so I don’t know the references, and in any case, the canon law has to be read as a whole; it isn’t like a list of traffic regulations, so it would be easy to make mistakes in taking things out of context.

But the Church assumes that non-Catholic parents would prefer to raise their children in the religion that they are actually practicing at home, rather than have the children be of a different religion than themselves.

I am not trying to be argumentative or say that I am an expert, that is why I am seeking more information and points of view. But honestly, and I’m not trying to be mean, I am not going to take “that’s what my boss says” as a credible source of information. I do appreciate all the responses and different points I have gotten here.

 

[Honour]

But here’s the thing, Canon Law only applies to those who are Catholic, you are not. At least not yet.

And this, I believe is the issue. Canon Law does not protect you, because you are outside of the Church, but the priest is bound by the Law, and the Law says there must be a “well-founded hope” that the child will be raised in the faith. I would think that neither parent being Catholic would pretty much make that impossible.

I get that, but I’m not going to let the fate of my daughters eternal soul hang in the balance without getting to the bottom of this. If, with full and accurate understanding of what cannon law says, and of my intention to raise her Catholic, he says he can’t baptize her, then I guess that’s that. I just want to make sure everyone is operating with the right info.

 

[Honour]

So just as we need to be careful about the laws in our state or nation, so do we have to be careful of Church law, because the repercussions are real, altho on the supernatural plane, and this can be very difficult for us to grasp.

I do appreciate the seriousness of the matter. I understand the importance of the sacrament, and that is why I am not content without a better answer. I know that God can save my baby without baptism, but i also know that it is very important to have infants baptized. That is why it urges parent to baptize their children as soon as possible after birth. Are they considering the repercussions of delaying her baptism? Trust me I do understand the consequences of being validly baptized but not being raised in the church with instruction. That’s what got me in the situation I am in now! I don’t want that for my kids! Thank you again for the advice and the understanding and reassuring tone of your posts.

 

[aemcpa]

Any idea how long until your annulment is decided? If your first marriage is declared null, that would make it easier for your pastor to baptize your baby as soon as possible, even before you are confirmed next April.