Leeann, you are revealing a dubious agenda which is clearly an attempt to discredit the authority and credibility of The Catholic Church and Her leaders.
The word “revealing” – implies that I’ve been concealing or trying to keep something secret from you. My initial post when I came into this thread, states clearly my reason for being here. (see above)
That’s not the purpose of these forums.
My understanding of the purpose of these forums is that questions are to be asked by visitors and those who wish to partake, will endeavor to answer them. I believe that is what has been happening.
It;s coming across a bit cheeky, anti-clerical and anti-authoritarian.
Yes…some of my own responses have been cheeky and I offer my apologies, not only for the times where they were intentional, (which I am ashamed to admit some were), but also for the times where my words may have been perceived incorrectly by the reader – understanding this format does not allow for vocal inflection.
It’s also conspicuous of you to arrive 20 centuries distant from the formation of The Church and many centuries after the theory of Limbo was developed to criticize The Church while personally benefiting from all Her scholarship and the blessings that flow out of Her to give us the modern context of open dialog we currently enjoy in our western civilization.
You don’t honestly mean to imply that you believe that I am the first and only person, over all these years, to have questioned this particular theory and the process of its development? You don’t honestly mean to imply that I’ll be the last?
As to “personally benefiting from all Her scholarship and the blessings that flow out of Her” - I’m not clear on what you mean - I personally, have never benefited in way from her - although if you are referring specifically to this “thread” - “as the context of open dialog”- well yes, it has been beneficial to me, to be able to read other’s comments and their insights.
It’s very clear that you have a serious personal problem with ecclesial authority.
Only when that ecclesial authority claims the same “sole authority” as to God’s will, as the RC Church leaders do.
So I would caution you to consider that you are criticizing Jesus’ and His Church.
That is a consideration we must
all take seriously … and having done so for myself…I am at peace, leaving my actions “solely” to His divine judgment.
The Catholic Church is NOT a democracy nor a confederation of sub-churches. It is the Body of Christ. We Catholics do have a concept called **sensus fidei ** which is the consensus of belief of the faithful.
(Which is good, just as a lot of other faiths have - and are encouraged to utilize it within their particular denomination whenever the need arises)
The reason that the concept of Limbo is being re-expressed is because we, the people of God through our collectively held sensus fidelium have come to the revelation that there is a greater and more plausible hope than Limbo. This is really a maturing and more compelling hope but is not a certainty.
And that is a commendable effort – not the “coming to the revelation” part, for as we all know that is by God’s grace – but the “seeing it through” part – making the authorities aware of the “urgent need” to clarify this dubious theory…better late than never.
To temper your criticism please recall the fact that there was NO BIBLE for about 400 years before the first Catholic Cannon was established. Nor was NO sola scriptura EVER in the church history; that was a modern speculation arising out of contrarian critical academics (Luther et-al) in the 1500’s. What we had before The Catholic Church assembled The Catholic Bible was a rule of law called *lex orandi, lex credendi * . That is, “law of prayer is the law of belief”. In the early Church, before we had The Bible, prayer and liturgy was the living tradition. It formed Christian rule of law, life and belief. Consider in light of this fact that in your zeal to attack legitimate divinely given ecclesial authority of Peter’s Chair by calling it’s leaders “irresponsible” for not growing Church insights “fast enough” to suit your personal schedule (I don’t expect that they should have “grown the church insights ” into anything – God’s grace was as efficient then and was there then, just as it is now – I simply question why someone in all that time…over all those centuries, didn’t take the responsibility that accompanies any authority (authority without responsibility is a dictatorship) and clarify this theory, then - instead of leaving it sit, accepting some of it, toning it down, letting it lie. In all those years was there not one who could recognize God’s infinite grace?) you seem willing to ignore more vulnerable aspects of what I suspect is your own faith. The modern “bible-centric” view of the Protestant view took Martin Luther operating through his own private initiatives 1500 year to come out of “the aether”. Would you be equally inclined to call our Protestant brothers “irresponsible” too for being so slow to revolt?
Yes you’re quite right…I wasn’t going to bring up what you call “the Protestant” view, but since you did - after due consideration - the answer is no - not so much “irresponsible” – but more as to being “blind” – until by the grace of God they were set free.
There is something I would ask that
you now consider and that is that apparently the idea of “sensus fidei” back then was not a concept that was embraced as wholeheartedly by the ones claiming to have had sole authority. The result speaks for itself.
(an aside):
By referring to “the aether”….are you displaying some “cheekiness” there James?
You might want to consider that The Church does not march to any one’s personal drum beat and tempo and only follows the urgings of the Holy Spirit in step with Divine Providence. (It would be apparent by now that I have considered this and haven’t discovered any substantial evidence that points to this as necessarily being a fact, other than your opinion based on what you’ve been told.) If you are signaling through criticism that you could do a better job you need to reassess if that would not put yourself in conflict with your own disregard for authority. (I’m not “signaling” through criticism anything - I’ve clearly stated a question and have clearly responded accordingly to each one.) I can’t imagine that the pattern of a dog chasing and biting at its own tail would effectively scale in the aggregate. The resentment would becomes larger but now self directed.
Well…that’s the difference…God’s mercy and grace doesn’t resort to our human need of “setting a scale for intelligence” as if that constitutes the basis of dispensing His truth to us……if that were the case, the word grace itself would have no meaning.
(another post coming to finish this off)
