Infant Baptism

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tabcom said:
Originally Posted by agangbern View Post
Were the ordinances done away with (in Col. 2:14)? No.

IMHO, you should study what Paul ment when he used the word dogma in this verse. With respects to the rest of your post . . . I’ve stated my disagreement elsewhere and fail to see the value of repeating it. If you have a specific question, perhaps I can provide a link to a previous post.
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Thanks for your opinion that I should study what Paul meant. Did Paul really used the word “dogma” in Col 2:14? Suppose we study it now together? Where did you get the idea that Paul used the word dogma in Col 2:14?

I don’t have other question to you as of now. But if you want to let me know of your disagreement that I might have not yet known, you need not repeat them here. You can simply give the link to it.
 
The Greek word that ordinances is translated from is “dogma”
  1. doctrine, decree, ordinance
    a) of public decrees
    b) of the Roman Senate
    c) of rulers
  2. the rules and requirements of the law of Moses; carrying a suggestion of severity and of threatened judgment
  3. of certain decrees of the apostles relative to right living
I think what Tabcom is trying to say is that in Colossians 2:14 Christ put away all ordinances past and future, he nailed them to a cross.
But he is taking that passage out of context if that is the point he is trying to make.

Paul is referring to all the demands of the Mosaic Law upon us, not Baptism being used as an entrance into Christianity.

If you read the different translations, you see that Paul is not trying to make the point that Tabcom is trying to make.

KJV - Col 2:14 -
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

NKJV - Col 2:14 -
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

NLT - Col 2:14 -
He canceled the record that contained the charges against us. He took it and destroyed it by nailing it to Christ’s cross.

NIV - Col 2:14 -
having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.

ESV - Col 2:14 -
by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

NASB - Col 2:14 -
having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

RSV - Col 2:14 -
having canceled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

ASV - Col 2:14 -
having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross;

Young - Col 2:14 -
having blotted out the handwriting in the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross;

Darby - Col 2:14 -
having effaced the handwriting in ordinances which [stood out] against us, which was contrary to us, he has taken it also out of the way, having nailed it to the cross;

Webster - Col 2:14 -
Blotting out the hand-writing of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

HNV - Col 2:14 -
wiping out the handwriting in ordinances which was against us; and he has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross;
 
runandsew said:
I think what Tabcom is trying to say is that in Colossians 2:14 Christ put away all ordinances past and future, he nailed them to a cross.
But he is taking that passage out of context if that is the point he is trying to make.

Paul is referring to all the demands of the Mosaic Law upon us, not Baptism being used as an entrance into Christianity.

If you read the different translations, you see that Paul is not trying to make the point that Tabcom is trying to make.
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I agree. He has taken it out of context. Besides, Colosians 2:14 is very specific as to what was put away. It was not baptism that was put away, but a particular decree which was “hostile to us”.
 
runandsew said:
Paul is referring to all the demands of the Mosaic Law upon us
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Those demands were written by mans hands, not the hand of God. To be more specific, the Mishnah and the Talmud. The Talmud is a record of rabbinic discussions pertaining to Jewish law, ethics, customs, and history.

The Mishnah attributes to Ezra a decree that each male should immerse himself before praying or studying. There were several Jewish groups that observed ritual immersion every day to assure readiness for the coming of the Messiah. The Church Fathers mentioned one of these groups called Hemerobaptists which means “daily bathers” in Greek. Among those used to regular immersion were the Essenes and others that the Talmud calls tovelei shaharit or “dawn bathers.”
Colosians 2:14 is very specific as to what was put away.
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The problem with your conclusion is that the word for dogma is plural.
 
tabcom said:
The problem with your conclusion is that the word for dogma is plural.
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You are right, it is plural. The more reason it would not fit into Col 2:14 which says, “cancelling the decree against us, which was hostile to us.” Replacing the word “decree” with the word “dogma” in that passage would be awkward.
 
I too believe that little children are not capable of committing sin James 4:17. Curse of adam is taken from them in Jesus Christ and the law of CIRCUMCISION is done away with Jesus Christ(see Acts 15:24). Repentance and batism is for those who are accountable and capable of comitting sin.

Matt 18:3 except ye … become as little children ye shall not enter the kingdom of heaven. Could this mean clean, pure, full of charity etc.
 
Dia_Jen_Feng said:
I too believe that little children are not capable of committing sin James 4:17. Curse of adam is taken from them in Jesus Christ and the law of CIRCUMCISION is done away with Jesus Christ(see Acts 15:24). Repentance and batism is for those who are accountable and capable of comitting sin.

Matt 18:3 except ye … become as little children ye shall not enter the kingdom of heaven. Could this mean clean, pure, full of charity etc.
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The physical act of removing the foreskin in circumcision was the one done away with. It was replaced with a new act which now has the spiritual effect of putting off the flesh. Circumcision in the time of the Jews is the equivalent of the present baptism done by the Church. Just as circumcision was done to infants, so also baptism is done to infants.

It is not true that “Repentance and baptism is for those who are accountable and capable of committing sin.” Jesus is the concrete example to falsify that statement.
 
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