Infant Dedication vs Infant Baptism

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Eric,
Let me assure that baptism alone will not take you to heaven, if a person such as an infant dies before the age of accountability (Knowing right from wrong) baptised or not they will go to heaven because in God’s eyes they are innocent, but if you have reached that point where you know right from wrong and you have not asked God into your heart baptised or not you are headed to an eternal hell, as the bible says As a tree falleth so shall it lay." The part you need to worry about is has God removed your sin not your priest (who does not have the power to forgive sins) but God only has that power and right…
 
Dear Harmony
Infant baptism does not cleanse the body from sin that only happens by asking God to forgive you of your sins there is no water that can remove sins
 
preacherman said:
Dear Harmony
Infant baptism does not cleanse the body from sin that only happens by asking God to forgive you of your sins there is no water that can remove sins
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Respectfully preacherman, you completely understand the Catholic teaching of baptism reflected by your statement.

We believe that God removes sin through the baptismal waters.

You seem to think we see baptism like some magic formula or something. In scripture we can see that God heals through people and things. When Paul heals someone, we don’t think Paul did the healing even though it was his hands that touched the body. We rightly believe that it was God who healed the person through Paul.

In this same manner, we can show you scripture that talks of the regenerative nature of baptism. Not because the water takes away our sins, but because God does.

God Bless,
Maria
 
Maria,
If you will read the post that Eric made you will understand why I made my reply,
 
Maria,
Read post #40 on this subject and then tell me that as a Catholic you do not believe that water has a super natural power
 
preacherman said:
Maria,
Read post #40 on this subject and then tell me that as a Catholic you do not believe that water has a super natural power
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God works through the water. The water is an outward sign of an inward spiritual reality that occurs when a person is baptized:

Acts 2:38

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Be baptized for what? For the remission of your sins.

God Bless, Michael
 
Harmony1911,
Let me bust your bubble but going to confession with a priest will not remove your sins the way that can happen is to go directly to God himself and ask that is why Jesus died so that we could go to the Father through him Jesus said no man cometh to the Father but by me. That means we don’t need the priest to pray for us or Mary we can pray directly to the fasther in the name of Jesus. Trust me this is the only way to have your sins removed. When the priest says I abmonish or abstain you from all sin he is just doing a ritual God is the only one that can do that and if God removes your sin you want need someone else to tell you you will know.

I care about souls and when I see people putting their faith and trust in a man rather than God it is dangerous to your soul
 
Mikeledes,
If your statement is true then the thief on the cross was not saved and did not go to paradise or heaven as Jesus promised, because he was not baptised. Baptism is for one thing and one thing only an outward sign of an inward work your salvation should already be obtained before you are baptised that is what was meant by that scruipture. It is not saying be baptised for removal of your sins when you are baptised you are showing the world that your sins are already gone.
 
preacherman said:
Mikeledes,
If your statement is true then the thief on the cross was not saved and did not go to paradise or heaven as Jesus promised, because he was not baptised. Baptism is for one thing and one thing only an outward sign of an inward work your salvation should already be obtained before you are baptised that is what was meant by that scruipture. It is not saying be baptised for removal of your sins when you are baptised you are showing the world that your sins are already gone.
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The normative way of receivng God’s gift of forgiveness is through water baptism. However, God is not bound by this in cases of emergency. The thief obviously could not have himself baptised. However, Acts 2:38 still stands.

An infant is not born innocent. He is born in Adam and thus is born with original sin.

Psalm 51:5

5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

God Bless,
Michael
 
preacherman said:
Maria,
Read post #40 on this subject and then tell me that as a Catholic you do not believe that water has a super natural power
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No preacher, I do not believe in superstition. Water has no super natural power to cleanse us from sin.

As we see in the answer below, we believe that the water is only an outward symbol of the spiritual reality of Christ’s blood cleansing us from sin.
mikeledes said:
God works through the water. The water is an outward sign of an inward spiritual reality that occurs when a person is baptized:

Acts 2:38

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Be baptized for what? For the remission of your sins.

God Bless, Michael
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preacherman said:
Mikeledes,
If your statement is true then the thief on the cross was not saved and did not go to paradise or heaven as Jesus promised, because he was not baptised. Baptism is for one thing and one thing only an outward sign of an inward work your salvation should already be obtained before you are baptised that is what was meant by that scruipture. It is not saying be baptised for removal of your sins when you are baptised you are showing the world that your sins are already gone.
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No preacher, you still don’t understand.

While we believe that God performs miracles through the sacraments, nothing is impossible for God and God can choose to save those who are pleasing to Him outside of the Sacraments.

And we actually have a name for the kind of baptism the thief on the cross had. Baptism by Desire.

While I understand that you believe that baptism is only symbolic, respectfully understand that we believe it is regenerative and is when Christ’s blood cleanses us from sin.

And also respectfully, your interpretation of scripture and a believers baptism is found absolutely nowhere in the history of Christianity until the 1600’s.

But whether or not you choose to believe that scripture and the history of Christianity supports a regenerative baptism, I pray that you now understand that we do not believe that water has some super natural power but is only an outward symbol of what we believe to be an inward transformation that is only possible because of Christ’s saving blood and God’s power.

God Bless,
Maria
 
🙂 Micheal,
This scripture you are quoteing is telling you to do two different things repent and be baptised repent first and then be baptised it is like saying wash your hands and then eat . I promise you without repenting first you are wasting your efforts because remember the thief on the cross he was not baptised yet he went to heaven with Jesus:) 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
 
preacherman said:
🙂 Micheal,
This scripture you are quoteing is telling you to do two different things repent and be baptised repent first and then be baptised it is like saying wash your hands and then eat . I promise you without repenting first you are wasting your efforts because remember the thief on the cross he was not baptised yet he went to heaven with Jesus:) 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
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Preacher, you’ve added words to scripture, and I recall something very serious being said about that in the book of Revelation.

It does not say, “repent and ***then ***be baptized.” It says, “Repent, and be baptized,” as my friend mikeledes has already highlighted in an earlier post. You’ve inserted the word “then” into this passage to force an order dependency that isn’t in the text.
 
preacherman said:
🙂 Micheal,
This scripture you are quoteing is telling you to do two different things repent and be baptised repent first and then be baptised it is like saying wash your hands and then eat . I promise you without repenting first you are wasting your efforts because remember the theif on the cross he was not baptised yet he went to heaven with Jesus:) 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
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The gift of salvation is not limited to adults and even babies in the womb can have faith(see Luke 1:44 for evidence of childlike faith:) ), have no need of repentance for personal sin, yet are still have the sin of Adam on their soul.

God Bless,
Maria
 
These verses are pretty clear on the role of baptism.

Mark 16:16

**16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. **

John 3:5

**5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. **

Acts 2:38

**38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. **

God Bless,
Michael
 
Here’s some more scripture for preacherman’s reference:

Mark 16:16 (DRB) - “He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned.”

This doesn’t look like a mere ceremony of public declaration. It is clearly a requirement for salvation.
 
mikeledes said:
Mark 16:16

16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
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djrakowski said:
Here’s some more scripture for preacherman’s reference:

Mark 16:16 (DRB) - “He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned.”

This doesn’t look like a mere ceremony of public declaration. It is clearly a requirement for salvation.
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Sorry, Michael, we must’ve been posting at the same time 🙂
 
Okay Acts 2:38 still stands but if water is the way you recieve God’s forgiveness is water then I guess Romans 10:9 where it says
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. I guess this is not true huh it does not say anything about water in this scripture because it takes more than water
 
preacherman said:
Okay Acts 2:38 still stands but if water is the way you recieve God’s forgiveness is water then I guess Romans 10:9 where it says
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. I guess this is not true huh it does not say anything about water in this scripture because it takes more than water
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Catholics don’t face the either/or problem that so often presents itself in non-Catholic theology. We believe that baptism has the effect of washing away the effects of original sin, as well as any actual (that is, personally committed) sin.

But, baptism isn’t the only means through which we receive the forgiveness of Our Lord. We also have the sacrament of reconciliation (otherwise known as confession), but I’m afraid it would constitute a derailment of this thread to discuss it here. There are plenty of other threads on the topic if you’d like to search for them, or open up one of your own, but I can assure you that the practice is, as is the case for each and every practice of the Catholic Church, thoroughly and irrefutably Biblical.
 
djrakowski,
Go back and read Revalation again it says in Rev 22 : 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Key word being prophesy not the whole bible like some people believe prophesy the book of Revalation so make sure you have your facts straight before you go condemming anyone. If you will look at these scriptures a little closer you will see they have the word and between repent and the word baptise that means you need to do both and that is not adding to anything that is what it is saying
 
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