Infertility frustrations

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cfreeman

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This is maybe more a vent, and a plea for prayer.

Sometimes I wish I didn’t know the Church’s teaching on assisted reproductive technology so well. Our doctor wants us to do an IUI, but to the best of my understanding, this isn’t really an option. The only theologians who think it is are dissenters from fairly clear teaching by the Popes.

I wish I didn’t know the teaching so well so that I could claim ignorance and ask forgiveness later. I know there are many out there that use these technologies without being totally aware of their moral implications. My wife wants badly to have an IUI, but I don’t think I can go along with it.

Mother Mary, pray for me.
 
cfreeman said:
This is maybe more a vent, and a plea for prayer.

Sometimes I wish I didn’t know the Church’s teaching on assisted reproductive technology so well. Our doctor wants us to do an IUI, but to the best of my understanding, this isn’t really an option. The only theologians who think it is are dissenters from fairly clear teaching by the Popes.

I wish I didn’t know the teaching so well so that I could claim ignorance and ask forgiveness later. I know there are many out there that use these technologies without being totally aware of their moral implications. My wife wants badly to have an IUI, but I don’t think I can go along with it.

Mother Mary, pray for me.
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How about doing a consult with the National Catholic Bioethics Center? You know the answer already, but it might be helpful for your wife to get the answer from an impartial third party.

ncbcenter.org/page.aspx?pid=1172
 
Wow! That seems like an incredibly helpful link. I’ll definitely be giving them a call.

Part of this struggle is not having anyone to talk to. I feel like I can’t talk to my wife about it, because she hasn’t bought into Catholic bioethics the way I have. She respects my views, but doesn’t really get it. I can’t talk to my family because they’ve basically abandoned their Catholic faith. I can’t talk to my priest because I don’t trust what he would say because I feel that so many priests just tell you what you want to hear.

Mother Mary, pray for me.
 
Also, I’ve put myself in this position. At our last appointment, the doctor suggested we try IUI. I said I was willing to try it because even though I knew it was a controverted method, I 1) want to do everything I can to have a child and 2) because I probably hadn’t read enough on IUI.

Since that appointment, I’ve read/prayed about IUI and I’ve changed my mind. It seems pretty obvious that it’s not a morally acceptable option.

Imagine this coversation with my wife:

Me: “Babe, I’ve read some books by some old professional theologians who will never have to deal with this problem, and they say that IUI isn’t an option for Catholics. I agree with them, so we can’t for forward with our IUI next weekend.”

Her: “You’re kidding right? I’ll put some sheets on the couch for you.” (Excuse my humor if you will)

Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God.
 
cfreeman said:
Also, I’ve put myself in this position. At our last appointment, the doctor suggested we try IUI. I said I was willing to try it because even though I knew it was a controverted method, I 1) want to do everything I can to have a child and 2) because I probably hadn’t read enough on IUI.

Since that appointment, I’ve read/prayed about IUI and I’ve changed my mind. It seems pretty obvious that it’s not a morally acceptable option.

Imagine this coversation with my wife:

Me: “Babe, I’ve read some books by some old professional theologians who will never have to deal with this problem, and they say that IUI isn’t an option for Catholics. I agree with them, so we can’t for forward with our IUI next weekend.”

Her: “You’re kidding right? I’ll put some sheets on the couch for you.” (Excuse my humor if you will)

Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God.
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Bummer!

One thing to ask the NCBC people is what you CAN do. That might go over a little better.
 
Have you heard of NaPro technology? These doctors are highly trained in dealing with fertility issues and they never recommend treatments against Church teaching since it’s founded by Catholics. They also have a much higher success rate than the artificial technologies and it’s safer and healthier for the woman. I had very very very bad fertility issues and my NaPro doctor was able to help me conceive. To find a teacher and/or doctor you can go to: fertilitycare.org/
 
Xantippe said:
Bummer!

One thing to ask the NCBC people is what you CAN do. That might go over a little better.
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I agree with focusing on can instead of can’t. If you jump in with “no IUI” and no alternatives, you risk your wife feeling shut down and without options. I’m guessing you may be feeling much the same as well. See what the NCBC people have to say and look into NAPRO.

A very good friend of mine recently confided that even hearing her worse fears realized (that she will likely never conceive), she learned so much about her body and improved her quality of life drastically after meeting with a NAPRO doctor. She also can’t help but wonder if she may have had a chance at conceiving if she had seen them sooner.

Many prayers for you and your wife.
 
my husband And I struggled for 5 years to have our first child, and another 5 to have our 2nd. This may be TMI… but my uterus was tipped so forward it was impossible for sperm to get where it needed to go. Our option was simply Intrauterine Insemination . He and I visited the doctor together. Obtained the sample. And the Dr ( actually… his nurse) did the insemination with a syringe and thin tube. His sperm, my egg(s), and a little mechanical assistance. Personally, I had no problem morally/ethically, even knowing the Church’s stance. ( and I know many would disagree. I am just giving you my personal feelings, right or wrong). we would not have pursued In Vitro , but IUI just gave us the “mechanical” assistance we needed, and He took over from there, allowing us to have 3 beautiful kiddos! ( the 3rd was conceived “normally” at home… apparently, growing 2 very large babies straightens a uterus out!
I prayed for Him to let me know if this was something I should do. I felt nothing but peace.
Could you speak to your own parish priest and ask for his (name removed by moderator)ut?
Good luck. I will pray for you and your wife. Infertility is stressful and heartbreaking… I know it is a very hard decision to explore treatment options, and decide if it is right for you.
 
MariaHope said:
Have you heard of NaPro technology? These doctors are highly trained in dealing with fertility issues and they never recommend treatments against Church teaching since it’s founded by Catholics. They also have a much higher success rate than the artificial technologies and it’s safer and healthier for the woman. I had very very very bad fertility issues and my NaPro doctor was able to help me conceive. To find a teacher and/or doctor you can go to: fertilitycare.org/
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Above, I gave you my personal experience…. just my perspective.

But this seems like something you could actively do and feel very good about.Thanks for that link, MariaHope.

Prayers for you!!!
 
cfreeman said:
Also, I’ve put myself in this position. At our last appointment, the doctor suggested we try IUI. I said I was willing to try it because even though I knew it was a controverted method, I 1) want to do everything I can to have a child and 2) because I probably hadn’t read enough on IUI.

Since that appointment, I’ve read/prayed about IUI and I’ve changed my mind. It seems pretty obvious that it’s not a morally acceptable option.

Imagine this coversation with my wife:

Me: “Babe, I’ve read some books by some old professional theologians who will never have to deal with this problem, and they say that IUI isn’t an option for Catholics. I agree with them, so we can’t for forward with our IUI next weekend.”

Her: “You’re kidding right? I’ll put some sheets on the couch for you.” (Excuse my humor if you will)

Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God.
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Correct me but did I just see you say.
I agree with them, so we can’t for forward with our IUI next weekend."
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So because you do not agree she can not do something when it is about something being done to her body? This is between both of you not just you.

Forgive me if I seem upset or rude that just struck me like a slap in the face.
 
SilverLight said:
So because you do not agree she can not do something when it is about something being done to her body? This is between both of you not just you.
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Whether to have a child is always an agreement between both parties. If they cannot come to an agreement, then no action can be taken at that time. This is true whether any assisted reproduction is involved or not. Couples disagree on whether to proceed with conceiving a child all the time.

This is not simply done to “her” body, it requires HIS contribution as well. And, he cannot contribute via an immoral procedure. He is willing to do whatever is a moral option. IUI is not a moral option.
 
I am so sorry for your situation.

My husband and I were in a similar situation, but this was before the Catholic Church or its teachings were even on our radar.

We struggled with secondary infertility and did do IUI (used in conjunction with Clomid) which resulted in the births of our twin daughters nearly 8 years ago.

I have struggled to understand the Catholic Church’s teachings regarding this issue and now that I understand what it teaches in regards to human sexuality, sex in marriage, the family, etc., I can appreciate its stance. I can honestly say that while I am VERY grateful that we were able to have our daughters, I could not participate in IUI now that we are on our way into the Church.

Without prying too much, WHY does your doctor believe IUI is absolutely necessary? In our case, it was just to maximize our odds of conception. The issue with me was that I wasn’t ovulating, which Clomid did indeed fix. Therefore, I cannot say that the IUI is what actually caused us to conceive and/or whether or not it would’ve happened anyway without the IUI 🤷 We conceived our very first cycle with the fertility specialist. My obgyn has been giving me the highest dosage of Clomid on days 5-9 and all the fertility specialist did was schedule an HSG (which can clear out tubes), lower the dosage and change the days to 3-7 and bam, TWINS! Again, though, it is very likely that we would’ve conceived naturally* without IUI* but that wasn’t the course of treatment dictated by our specialist.

I guess what I’m getting out is that you both definitely need to know what the issues are preventing conception and what can be done within the bioethical teachings of the Church to help alleviate your issues. I wouldn’t put all my hope and trust into IUI being the “cure all” because sometimes it is just a standard recommendation given by doctors and many times not really even necessary.
 
SilverLight said:
Correct me but did I just see you say.

So because you do not agree she can not do something when it is about something being done to her body? This is between both of you not just you.

Forgive me if I seem upset or rude that just struck me like a slap in the face.
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Of course she can’t. Nor could he unilaterally decide to amputate his leg next weekend. But why you ask? It’s *his *leg?

If something is immoral for an individual or in a marriage, one party cannot consent simply because their body will not be involved in the procedure. Hence why the bible speaks of the importance of being equally yoked, because these decisions are aided when a couple is on the same page.

It is a tough position to be in for the OP, who certainly wants to see his wife conceive and loves her, but the fact that it is a procedure on her is irrelevant. A man who loves his wife will always be more concerned for her soul than her desires, and likewise for a wife.

The real slap in the face is the notion for a man or woman that what they do to their body is no concern of their spouse. That’s not marriage, or our faith.
 
1ke said:
Whether to have a child is always an agreement between both parties. If they cannot come to an agreement, then no action can be taken at that time. This is true whether any assisted reproduction is involved or not. Couples disagree on whether to proceed with conceiving a child all the time.

This is not simply done to “her” body, it requires HIS contribution as well. And, he cannot contribute via an immoral procedure. He is willing to do whatever is a moral option. IUI is not a moral option.
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According to this religion yes I am looking at it from both party’s stand points it only seems like a logical and sound thing to do. This religion gives me a really bad headache sometimes and it hurts. Sorry if that upset anyone
 
Maximilan_Kolbe said:
Of course she can’t. Nor could he unilaterally decide to amputate his leg next weekend. But why you ask? It’s *his *leg?

If something is immoral for an individual or in a marriage, one party cannot consent simply because their body will not be involved in the procedure. Hence why the bible speaks of the importance of being equally yoked, because these decisions are aided when a couple is on the same page.

It is a tough position to be in for the OP, who certainly wants to see his wife conceive and loves her, but the fact that it is a procedure on her is irrelevant. A man who loves his wife will always be more concerned for her soul than her desires, and likewise for a wife.

The real slap in the face is the notion for a man or woman that what they do to their body is no concern of their spouse. That’s not marriage, or our faith.
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Then the question of do you want a child or not may unfortunately come up. They could also adopt. I feel for the OP and his wife because both my parents tried for a long time to have kids by natural means and in vitro. They eventually stopped because they felt it was part of Gods plan to not have children that way. I was then adopted and they gained a child to love and hold.
 
MariaHope said:
Have you heard of NaPro technology? These doctors are highly trained in dealing with fertility issues and they never recommend treatments against Church teaching since it’s founded by Catholics. They also have a much higher success rate than the artificial technologies and it’s safer and healthier for the woman. I had very very very bad fertility issues and my NaPro doctor was able to help me conceive. To find a teacher and/or doctor you can go to: fertilitycare.org/
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I was going to suggest Napro Technology too. Please consider this option. This is ok with the Catholic church and it is so much better. Don’t let the doctor pushed you into something you know.is not right. Look for a.Napro doctor.
 
slh3016 said:
I

Without prying too much, WHY does your doctor believe IUI is absolutely necessary? In our case, it was just to maximize our odds of conception. The issue with me was that I wasn’t ovulating, which Clomid did indeed fix. Therefore, I cannot say that the IUI is what actually caused us to conceive and/or whether or not it would’ve happened anyway without the IUI 🤷 We conceived our very first cycle with the fertility specialist. My obgyn has been giving me the highest dosage of Clomid on days 5-9 and all the fertility specialist did was schedule an HSG (which can clear out tubes), lower the dosage and change the days to 3-7 and bam, TWINS! Again, though, it is very likely that we would’ve conceived naturally* without IUI* but that wasn’t the course of treatment dictated by our specialist.
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Those are some very interesting points.
 
USCCB Guidelines for Reproductive Technology.
Reproductive Technologies under Discussion (neither “approved” nor “disapproved”):
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  1. Gamete intra-fallopian transfer (GIFT).
    (The Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has not yet pronounced on the
    subject.)
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  1. Intrauterine insemination (IUI) of “licitly obtained” (normal intercourse) but
    technologically prepared semen sample (washed, etc.).
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IUI (intrauterine insemination) of “licitly obtained” (normal intercourse) but technologically
prepared semen sample. The sperm are collected from a perforated condom after normal intercourse, washed, and then injected into the uterine cavity, bypassing the cervix to avoid “hostile” mucus. Cervical mucus hostility is an immunological reaction brought about by several known, and some unknown factors. A postcoital test would find no living sperm in mucus during the fertile phase. Other treatments for cervical mucus hostility include abstinence for two years to allow the antibodies to diminish or disappear, or the use of condoms (not acceptable for Catholics). Various treatments with steroids have been tried without much success.
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