Infertility issues

[Big_BC]

My wife and I are having problems conceiving for the past two years now. As me being in my mid-40’s and her in her late 30s, we feel that our biological clock is ticking. One of the main issues we have is that it is very hard for her to climax during sex, which I’ve been told helps fertilization tremendously. I believe the Catholic Church tells us that we cannot use devices.

Any advice regarding what to do?

 

[SonCatcher]

Her difficulty in achieving climax has little to do with it, actually. Have you consulted a doctor? After 2 years, I think medical tests may be in order.

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

Her difficulty in achieving climax has little to do with it, actually. Have you consulted a doctor? After 2 years, I think medical tests may be in order.

Second this. Get thee to a pro-life physician, Big BC.

 

[Big_BC]

Thanks for the advice.

We’ve actually have had 2 miscarriages in the past year, which took a huge emotional toll on both of us. So I know we can get pregnant…except for the fact that we had help with a device for her stimulation for orgasm. My conscience kept eating away at me, and afterward I found out talking to my priest that, yes, it is a mortal sin to use such device.

So I guess I’m trying to figure out where to turn to next for our dilemna if she has problems climaxing on her own in order to get pregnant. We just started trying to conceive again after the last miscarriage so it might not be a problem after all. But it’s still frustrating.

Big BC

 

[Spencerian]

Thanks for the advice.

We’ve actually have had 2 miscarriages in the past year, which took a huge emotional toll on both of us. So I know we can get pregnant…except for the fact that we had help with a device for her stimulation for orgasm. My conscience kept eating away at me, and afterward I found out talking to my priest that, yes, it is a mortal sin to use such device.

So I guess I’m trying to figure out where to turn to next for our dilemna if she has problems climaxing on her own in order to get pregnant. We just started trying to conceive again after the last miscarriage so it might not be a problem after all. But it’s still frustrating.

Big BC

As others noted, do see a doctor on this.

Physicians who are Catholic-minded may recommend NaPro technology to help with fertility issues. Be wary of any that suggest in-vitro fertilization or any other method where egg and sperm are not united naturally through the marital act, as this is contrary to Church teaching.

I am curious on the use of marital aids during the marital act and where Church teachings notes they are illicit. My understanding is that that the sexual process must conclude within the end-specifics of the marital act (specifically, intercourse and climax for the man while united) but I do not know if there is any teachings on the use of marital aids that assist in the union, particularly with the wife.

There doesn’t seem to be a problem in terms of appropriateness in that the unitive process is underway; all that may occur with most marital aids in assisting the woman’s comfort at the least and pleasure in the most (which, I do recall, does have a positive aspect towards conception). If anyone has any Church teachings/Catechism references to clarify this, it would be appreciated.

 

[SonCatcher]

Usually, doctors don’t bat an eye at one miscarriage. A second gets their attention, however. There could be nutritional or stress-related issues (including the stress of not successfully bearing a child). Proper testing can reveal most medical and nutritional problems. Counseling may help with stress.

If you don’t yet have a copy of Fertility, Cycles and Nutrition, this book may help you to correct any nutritional deficiencies. Whenever you do conceive again, make sure to get her under the care of an OBGYN right away so they can monitor her progress. Sometimes the doctor can prescribe something to keep her pregnancy hormones in balance (if they are out of balance). Sometimes, he’ll recognize a situation where the mother basically needs to stay in bed for the duration of the pregnancy.

 

[1ke]

Regarding the morality of assisting your wife during intercourse-- there is no problem with you assisting her with your hands.

I don’t understand why you believe this has anything to do with conceiving, however.

 

[SonCatcher]

I do not know if there is any teachings on the use of marital aids that assist in the union, particularly with the wife.

There isn’t a definitive teaching as of yet. The priest may have interpreted the particular device and its use as being equivalent to masturbation. Regardless, if either husband or wife is uncomfortable with its use, they should avoid it.

 

[Big_BC]

Thank you, everyone, for all of the wonderful advice.

The issue we have is the use of the vibrator for climaxing/orgasm after the sexual act. I was told that it would be a sin to use such device. Not sure if this is valid or not. We are afraid we might not become pregnant if she cannot climax after the sexual act.

I am a new member. I can see that this is a wonderful community already.

 

[SummerSmiles]

Thanks for the advice.

We’ve actually have had 2 miscarriages in the past year, which took a huge emotional toll on both of us. So I know we can get pregnant…except for the fact that we had help with a device for her stimulation for orgasm. My conscience kept eating away at me, and afterward I found out talking to my priest that, yes, it is a mortal sin to use such device.

So I guess I’m trying to figure out where to turn to next for our dilemna if she has problems climaxing on her own in order to get pregnant. We just started trying to conceive again after the last miscarriage so it might not be a problem after all. But it’s still frustrating.

Big BC

I’m so sorry about the loss you’ve experienced. I am with the other posters, get some medical advice from a doctor. If you can, find one who is familiar with NaPro technology. If you can’t, be wary of advice from doctors to try things like invitro fertilization. Anything where sperm and egg are united outside of sex is contrary to Church teaching.

As for your wife climaxing, it’s very common for women to need additional stimulation (not vaginal intercourse only) in order to reach climax. I’m not sure of the church’s official teaching on devices, but you could always use your hands…

However, her climax doesn’t have anything to do with conceiving. She can still conceive without a climax, although it is admittedly less fun.

 

[faithfully]

Hmmm… You “believe” you’re not allowed to use devices… and where did you read this? I mean we’ve got a lot that we, as Catholics, believe in, but it’s not stuff we pull out of the air.

Let’s get a wee more clear. She is not to use a device alone. You are not to do anything alone as you know.

Helping your wife climax is considered a very gracious thing to do. Just make sure it’s all in the context of having intercourse, and that YOU do the deed where you’re supposed to.

I have a feeling that men think an orgasm must happen only during the physcial sexual act, because FOR MEN, they are going to expel semen. Location of body parts = very important. For women. Not so. Our contribution to making a baby stays nice and tucked in. Trust me, you want your wife to enjoy sex. 'Cause when baby does come, and she’s exhausted, and knows there NOTHING in it for her… things won’t be looking good for you. Promise.

The reason you hear that an orgasm helps is because the cervix will dip down and sort of swab up the semen.

However, I assure you that all the babies you see out on the street are not do to mind blowing sex. Kind of creats a whole new image doesn’t it?

Your ages, and the number of years you’ve been trying warrants medical exams for both of you.

I’m wondering if she had any tests during/after the miscarriages. Given her age, her hormones could be quite off, and she may (this is why you need a dr.) not be making enough projesterone to support a PG. Just as an example. She needs to know that. If that were the case, and if she were to get PG again, she could get projesterone, and supplement. Otherwise, no healthy baby really has a chance, let alone an unhealthy baby that God sees fit to bring home extra early.

I’m sorry to hear of the miscarriages. Having experienced, I understand the devastation. The loss, the sadness, the betrayl of your own body. It can be overwhelming.

My prayers are with you!

 

[Big_BC]

I forgot to add that I do try to assist with climaxing with my hands. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. Thus the quandry with using the vibrator.

 

[GraceDK]

Dear brother…

get a book about natural family planning… it will teach you when in her cycle your wife is most fertile

God bless!

 

[Spencerian]

There isn’t a definitive teaching as of yet. The priest may have interpreted the particular device and its use as being equivalent to masturbation. Regardless, if either husband or wife is uncomfortable with its use, they should avoid it.

Agreed. Provided one has clear teachings on the nature of the sexual act, a person should follow their conscience–carefully–in actions that promote the unity of the couple as well as the openness to life. I’m a little disappointed that there may not be an official teaching on this, but then the Church can’t have a "position’ on everything in the universe.

 

[Big_BC]

Thank you all for your insight. Sometimes maybe I am too close to the situation to rationally understand what’s going on.

If anyone has anything on official church teachings, that would be helpful.

We have a wonderful, beautiful 2-year old that God has blessed us with. At the time, we used a vibrator as part of the sexual act to conceive. Since then, I’ve been racked with guilt about really trying to understand the life-giving grace that God gives us, especially since we have been unsuccessful to have children for the past two years.

God Bless,

Big BC

 

[chris138]

So sorry for your losses. Infertility is a huge cross, one I too have had to carry. Try and find a Catholic doctor(one who uses NFP) who can work with her cycles and figure out why she had the miscarriages. Given your age you shouldn’t waste time. It soulds like she can get pregnant but something is preventing her from carrying the child full term. It could be simple, I had a friend who had to take an asprin a day(not sure why) and this kept her from having another miscarriage.

Here’s another thought as well from someone who had secondary infertility—adoption.

I will pray for you.

 

[faithfully]

Thank you all for your insight. Sometimes maybe I am too close to the situation to rationally understand what’s going on.

If anyone has anything on official church teachings, that would be helpful.

We have a wonderful, beautiful 2-year old that God has blessed us with. At the time, we used a vibrator as part of the sexual act to conceive. Since then, I’ve been racked with guilt about really trying to understand the life-giving grace that God gives us, especially since we have been unsuccessful to have children for the past two years.

God Bless,

Big BC

I find going to the source quite helpful! I’ve bolded what I suspect will be helpful to you.

You will find the below quote here: vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

Offenses against chastity

2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

So, my question to you would be… Are you seeking sexual pleasure, you or your wife, just for the pleasure of it? And are you doing anything OUTSIDE of marriage?

It seems rather clear you are TRYING to have a baby. So… At this juncture, I think you need to talk with a good Dr., and a priest, so you can quit beating yourself up over this!

May God bless your journey…

 

[NSFrame]

I agree that medical tests may be in order.

First, though, is your wife charting her cycles? I recommend the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility - a secular book but very educational. This will help you see whether she is ovulating regularly and take advantage of every cycle to its fullest.

Since you have conceived but have miscarried, I would tend to think that tests would show both ovulation and appropriate sperm levels. The miscarriages may simply be due to your ages - which means you may need to just keep trying (and also makes maximizing each cycle that much more important). Or, there could be an issue with your wife’s hormones, blood clotting, etc. - all of which can be morally treated medically.

I had some issues myself that caused miscarriage (had a sepate uterus) and utilized a regular Reproductive Endocrinologist, since there were no NaPro doctors in my area. There is nothing wrong with using a regular RE - just tell him what you are and are not willing to do. They will not push IVF or anything you are morally opposed to (if they do, then it’s the wrong practice for you).

 

[manualman]

I forgot to add that I do try to assist with climaxing with my hands. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.

We’re not allowed to make medical diagnoses here, but I’m going to go out on a limb and conclude from this statement that you’re wife’s medical condition is: Womanhood. That’s just how they work, they ain’t simple like us.

I’ll tell you a secret I discovered. When I’m in the mood and I can’t tell for sure if she is or not, I fold and put away laundry. Scrub the shower enclosure sparkly clean and you probably won’t ever need anything with batteries again!

Ain’t they weird? I’ve removed replaced the cylinder head on my car and only got “Don’t get greasy fingerprints all over the bathroom.” But achieving a mere clean shower enclosure is like she-Viagra. Who can comprehend 'em?

 

[Castello]

Sorry, but it seems that this may be someone trying just have a discussion about using devices that are of questionable morality.