Infertility

[SeekerJen]

Thanks, Dan. What an amazing story. I know it gives us hope for the future (as we come up to the second anniversary of the miscarriage of our one and only pregnancy). My husband and I hope to be blessed someday as you and your wife have been.

 

[Giannawannabe]

Dan,
I am tearing up after reading your story. My children are also adopted, and they all came in God’s way and time, not ours. Thank you so much for your beautiful and hope filled testimony.

This past year, I have been seriously hoping to adopt again. DH is not on same page, for many, many good reasons. I ask for all of your prayers as we try to discern what God wants for us. I will continue to pray for all of you, too.

 

[aurora77]

Dan, that is wonderful. My husband is a whole lot better with surrendering to God’s will than I am. It’s not that I don’t believe in Him, it’s just hard for me to not be in control. I really like what you said about having to go through a “purification” to get to where you are today. I feel like, and DH brought it up out of the blue, that we’re going through that same process right now. Whether we have biological children or we adopt, we’ll be better parents and better people for what we are going through now. I’ve seen how God has used our suffering in the past to make us stronger as a couple and stronger Christians, it’s just making myself realize all the good that can come from the pain we feel now.

Our last dr’s appt got postponed. He is waiting on records from a surgery I had a couple of years ago and they have not come in yet. He’d hoped they’d be in by Thurs, but they called and cancelled the appt. Hopefully next week we’ll know more.

Chovy, I hope your recovery is quick! I’ll definitely pray for you and for everyone here.

 

[Convert_in_99]

Hello!

I tried to start a new thread today (oops!) not realizing you all were here. Sorry!

Here’s our story (so far.) We have been married fifteen wonderful months. We have desired children from our wedding night, though we have not yet conceived. We will take any Church approved advice, though we do not wish to learn Natural Family Planning, or see a fertility doctor. We are leaving everything up to God. We want as many blessings as He will give, and we hope He gives us an army! We are also very open to adoption, and will pursue that route after several years of trying. We also want to adopt, at least one child, even if we can conceive. We welcome prayers and advice. I am feeling much sadness, due to not being able to conceive, though I do thank God always for my wonderful husband and awesome marriage

That’s where I am at right now. I will surely post more later. My greatest consolation right now is my wonderful husband and two dogs (yep, they are at least half-way decent subs now!) Be back later

 

[SueKrum]

Hi convert,
I am in a similar situation as yourself. My husband adn I have been married for two years (just celebrated our annaversery monday:thumbsup: ) We have also decided that if we cannot conceive, that we will not go to any fertility doctors.

It’s my opinion that for the most part, the fertility industry is not pro-life. At least, not in the catholic sense. Most of the procedures are not approved by the church, they are costly and they are not 100%. I feel like if I am going to go through a lot of trouble outside of the normal means of conception to have a child, that time, money and energy is better spent on addopting a child who is already here on earth and needing a loving family.

is this how you feel as well?

I am curious why you do not want to learn NFP. In my opinion, NFP is somehting every woman should know simply for the fact that it increases awairness of one’s bottly functions. My husband and I have decided to dilligently chart my cycle for a full year and than go to the CCL with it to see if they can offer any “natural” advice. For example, one who is knowlageble on the subject can look at someone’s morning temps and see if there is some kind of deficincy in vitamens, or something else.

It’s my belief that there are two kinds of medicen. the first is the natural kind that supports our bodies and serves to treat problems and make the whole person better. the othe rkind (which is the kind the pharmisudical industry pramotes) serves to cover up symptomes so the problems are no longer apperent. sticking to the subject of women’s reproductive systems, I’ll use the example of a lot of doctores putting young girls on the birth controle pill because they have irregular cycles. There is a reason why one’s cycles are not regular and using the pill to artaficially regulate the cycles will not fix the problem, only cover the symptom. what if the cause is some kind of thyroid problem? or a vitamen deficincy? They’ll go on that way until another problem pops up as a result.

anyway, kind of a rant, but my point is, don’t shy away from certain things we can do pramote our firtility. God put all the things of this earth here for our use. It’s our duty to use them properly and for His glory.

 

[Convert_in_99]

**FIRST AND FOREMOST, DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO CLOSE/DELETE THREADS? I started a duplicate and am trying to end it. I am redirecting all who respond here. I think this bigger sharing group is more beneficial to everyone. **

I have had three people ask why I don’t use NFP. Well, I don’t believe it is right to postpone pregnancy through NFP. I do not condemn, nor try to prevent other couples from doing so. I do not feel that it is right to know when you are fertile and PURPOSELY avoid lovemaking that day in order to prevent a child from coming. I think when children come into this world should be entirely dependant upon GOD, and not us.

HOWEVER, having said that, I do not see anything wrong at all to use fertility awareness methods (such as NFP) in order to conceive a child. Since it is ultimately God who enables the conception, not the simple use of a fertile day (or time.)

It’s just hard for me, seeing NFP as a very negative thing in preventing children from coming, and turn around and use the method anyways.

If that dosen’t help I will try to further explain myself later. But, having said all that, I think that all you couples using fertility awareness methods are doing a beautiful thing for God in trying to conceive a child for Him. May your efforts be blessed :heaven:

On to a new topic, does anyone out there experience any of the following problems as a result of low fertility or infertility?

Very personal, but I am having trouble seeing that God blesses our marriage. Sometimes I feel that because we can’t have kids, it is a sign that God dosen’t approve of our union. Also, this leads to feeling stagnant and sterile in the marital act. Like its fruitless, therefore pointless and no longer pleasing to God.(Although I know, in my mind at least, that the Church does not see it like this at all.)

Anyone else feel these things?

The most inspiring story I ever heard, regarding infertility, was a older couple who for 20 years could not conceive. They adopted two children. Once in her early forties, the woman finally conceived, not even trying A regular couple, not biblical, conceiving miracously. What a foretaste of heaven and hope for us all :heaven:

 

[littlepaperstar]

**FIRST AND FOREMOST, DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO CLOSE/DELETE THREADS? **

Yes! email a moderator with your request.

HTH!

 

[SueKrum]

Hi convert,
I understand what you are saying reguarding your views on NFP. While I have used the method for a short period of time to post pone pregnancy, I have had similar thoughts to yourself. However, when I was postponing, it was because I was going to have an operation due to pre-cancerous cells and the operation could not have been done had I been pregnant. However, since we were only using NFP and no chemicals, there was always a chance for conception anyway because even NFP is not an exact science. I do believe that people should have a very serious reason for post poning pregnancy and their reasons should be evaluated every month. This is also the teaching of our church.

I also know what you are saying about feeling that God doesn’t approve of your marrage. But, you should keep scripture in mind when such thoughts enter your head. There were a fiew women in the Bible who were not able to conceive for many years, however their marrages were certainlly blessed. And after many years, they were able to have a child. I am thinking of Sarah (the wife of Abraham) and I cannot remember her name, but the mother of Samule (a great prophet of God).

Remember that while Children are a blessing and a gift from God, they are not the ONLY blessing and gift. God will show His approvement of your marrage in other ways if He doesn’t bless you with children.

I have a very good friend who was never blessed with children and is now passed child bearing years. It was a huge heartach for her and still is sometimes, but she had her husband have become powerful pro-life intercessors and have helped many people through deeds and prayers. They are able to do a lot of things that people with large families are not able to do because of home responsabilities. Their marrage has brought a lot of good fruit. If God doesn’t call you to be a bilological mother, He will call you to motherhood of another kind.

 

[Teakafrog]

Very personal, but I am having trouble seeing that God blesses our marriage. Sometimes I feel that because we can’t have kids, it is a sign that God dosen’t approve of our union.

Maybe His plan doesn’t include biological children for everybody. He can and does call people to adopt. There are lots of kids out there that need homes. I won’t go into our whole story again now, but we have been blessed with both bio and adopted children. I know with my whole heart that part of the reason we struggled with infertility for so long was so that God could lead us to our adopted daughter. I believe He meant for us to have her, and if we had had 5 or 6 bio kids by then, we probably wouldn’t have been able to adopt her when she needed us.
Infertility can also teach us patience and trust. I know I have HAD to learn to be more patient in dealing with this, and also how to place all my trust in Him. I knew He was going to give us more kids one way or the other, and He has blessed us so abundantly! It is SO hard while you’re in the middle of it, and the hurt of it never really goes away. I have 3 kids now, but I still consider myself infertile, because I have no idea if I can ever have another one. If I do, it will probably be by adoption again. It is a special cross, and He gives it only to some of us. I figure there must be a reason, and we should try to do the best we can with what we have, and grow closer to Him through our cross of infertility.

 

[1ke]

I have had three people ask why I don’t use NFP. Well, I don’t believe it is right to postpone pregnancy through NFP. I do not condemn, nor try to prevent other couples from doing so. I do not feel that it is right to know when you are fertile and PURPOSELY avoid lovemaking that day in order to prevent a child from coming. I think when children come into this world should be entirely dependant upon GOD, and not us.

HOWEVER, having said that, I do not see anything wrong at all to use fertility awareness methods (such as NFP) in order to conceive a child. Since it is ultimately God who enables the conception, not the simple use of a fertile day (or time.)

It’s just hard for me, seeing NFP as a very negative thing in preventing children from coming, and turn around and use the method anyways.

That’s your perogative, but I find it very sad that you would reject the knowledge God has given us about our fertility.

 

[Convert_in_99]

Thanks everyone! You’ve been so kind and helpful. :yup: I am so glad I came by this way. It’s so nice to know that I am not alone and that others are sharing in the cross I am carrying. Thanks for helping me carry my cross, and I hope that through prayers and sharing I can help you carry yours. May you all be blessed, God willing, baby blessed :heaven:

I hope this thread hangs on a while, it’s the best

 

[Convert_in_99]

That’s your perogative, but I find it very sad that you would reject the knowledge God has given us about our fertility.

Oh, not rejecting. God gives us LOTS of knowledge. He gave us knowledge about a lot of bad things too. NFP isn’t bad, however, it isn’t for every couple. It is common knowledge, but, should not be common in practice.

The Church makes clear that this knowledge of fertility in NFP is to be used only in serious situations, with grave circumstances. For infertile, as for fertile couples, it should be used as a last resort, for serious reasons.

Maybe God does not want a couple to conceive on a given day, but permits them to. He permits fertile couples to use NFP whenvever THEY deem is a serious reason. So although in no way sinning, they could do more perfectly the will of God by having no knowledge of their fertitliy, and letting God give them the children HE wants to give, WHEN He wants to give them. It more perfectly fulfills God’s will to trust in Him alone and not NFP. NFP can still have a tinge of “I trust in You God, but only 90%,” even though not a bad in and of itself.

NFP still has that word “planning” in it. You have made a choice to use the awareness of a God given knowledge (here it’s fertility,) and PLAN according to that knowledge you obtained (to use or refuse marital relations on fertile days.) There is always a difference between planning and trusting. Like any good parent, God desires full and complete trust. God has a permissive and an ordaining will. His ordaining will is what HE wants from all eternity to happen. It requires a submissive trust in and complete fidelity to His will to happen. God also has a permissive will, which respects our free will and allows us to make choices, both good and bad. If a child asks for some store bought cookies before dinner, saying pretty please, looking irresistable, and promising not to spoil their appetite, the parent might permit this (“the permissive will”.) In actuality, however, the mother was going to (“the ordaining will”) make an extra-special dessert that was the child’s absolute favorite, though she decided against it, since the child already ate the store bought cookies beforehand.

We may desire children, or desire to space births through NFP. For those struggling with infertility, we say “pretty please” to God. He permits us to conceive a child and that is truly a gift from God. (As the store bought cookies were still a treat provided by the mother.) However, had we trusted and waited more patiently to conceive on the date HE ordained us to conceive we may have been blessed with TRIPLETS, though we were settled for one. He could not now give the triplets, we are already pregnant. The child could not have the special dessert, he already ate the cookies. For fertile couples spacing births with NFP, they say “pretty please” no more children now. God, in His mercy, permits this, but may have ordained they not use NFP in order to bless them with ten children. However, in their old age, the couple may suffer intense loneliness since they only had three with NFP.

God wants to give us the best, we settle for less. He permits the less, but longs to have us trust in Him completely. The child did not sin in eating the cookies before dinner, it was permitted by the mother, though the store bought cookies wouldn’t compare to mom’s homade double fudge brownie delights! We don’t sin in using NFP, it is permitted by God, but who knows how good the “home made” blessings of God would have been. All we need is complete and total surrender and trust. It is VERY hard for saints, and near impossible for the rest of us. But, it IS possible, for with God all things are possible.

If NFP works for you, and, after much prayer, you feel its a serious enough reason, then God is happy and pleased with your efforts and you are doing His will. Regardless of whether it is his ordaining or permissive will. Not to worry

Not using NFP and trusting completely in God’s will for their fertility is something many couples still choose. Whether they end up with none or ten children as a result, is entirely dependent upon the will of our merciful Lord and Creator of all life within.

Hope this helps. “Whoever isn’t agaisnt us is for us!”

 

[dkoinzan]

Can I way in on the “To NFP or not to NFP” issue. I learned NFP so that we could attempt to find out why I had such painful periods. Using the Creighton Method has helped the doctors to address health issues and correct them. As long as my cycle seemed normal, we allowed God to choose the outcome. Then I had two preborn children die, one at 31 weeks and one at 14 weeks. For some reason my body is not working like it should. I don’t know if it is because of environmental reasons or issues I inherited or what, but I do know that holding dead babies is hard. Now I am using NFP to not conceive so that my doctor can watch my cycle to see what is causing the babies to die. I would love to conceive again, but to do that right now may mean to hold another dead child in my arms. I am thankful for NFP. I used it to figure out when my fertile time was so that I could conceive my first two children. Even using NFP it took three years to conceive. I have five children now and God sent each and every one of them. He also chose to have two of them return to heaven. I don’t know why those two children died. Maybe God wanted me to find out what is wrong so that I can continue to raise the three he chose to keep on earth. Many fertility issues can lead to other illnesses or can be the cause of disease that needs addressing. I consult the Catholic Church on all health issues. Hope this helps.

 

[1ke]

The Church makes clear that this knowledge of fertility in NFP is to be used only in serious situations, with grave circumstances. For infertile, as for fertile couples, **it should be used as a last resort, for serious reasons. **

This absolutely is **NOT **Church teaching. Honestly I find your entire post quite troubling.

I wish you well and hope that God does bless you with children. I will cease posting on this thread. It is for infertility support, not debating Church teaching. I asked my original question on a different thread, you replied to it here.

Suffice it to say, we will agree to disagree.

 

[Convert_in_99]

Can I way in on the “To NFP or not to NFP” issue. I learned NFP so that we could attempt to find out why I had such painful periods. Using the Creighton Method has helped the doctors to address health issues and correct them. As long as my cycle seemed normal, we allowed God to choose the outcome. Then I had two preborn children die, one at 31 weeks and one at 14 weeks. For some reason my body is not working like it should. I don’t know if it is because of environmental reasons or issues I inherited or what, but I do know that holding dead babies is hard. Now I am using NFP to not conceive so that my doctor can watch my cycle to see what is causing the babies to die. I would love to conceive again, but to do that right now may mean to hold another dead child in my arms. I am thankful for NFP. I used it to figure out when my fertile time was so that I could conceive my first two children. Even using NFP it took three years to conceive. I have five children now and God sent each and every one of them. He also chose to have two of them return to heaven. I don’t know why those two children died. Maybe God wanted me to find out what is wrong so that I can continue to raise the three he chose to keep on earth. Many fertility issues can lead to other illnesses or can be the cause of disease that needs addressing. I consult the Catholic Church on all health issues. Hope this helps.

This is CERTAINLY a serious reason for the use of NFP. Infertility can be a serious reason to use NFP too. The risk of depression, as well as the risk of serious physical illnesses to the mother if she never bears a child, not to mention simply possesing an intense longing to bring a child into the world for God are noble reasons for infertile couples to use NFP. I didn’t say that it was bad to use, and definately is not sinful. I did say that it wasn’t meant for all couples to use, nor for couples to use indefinately (though, even here there are legitimate cases, such as a mother who risks death by uterine erupture, cancer or other serious illness.)

I was simply explaining to a previous poster about why my husband and I and many other couples choose NOT to use NFP ever. Even if it does mean we will never conceive a child naturally, or we may have to find room for ten!

Both NFP (for serious reasons) and not using any family planning are acceptable to God (as revealed by His Church.) We are called to be stewards of His gifts. Some can give more, some can give less. The poor widow put in her two cents, and she was blessed far more than all the rich scribes who put in their surplus wealth. Not everyone can have all the children God wants to give them. We are human. It would be so much better if every single person went to daily mass every single day. But, again we are human. It is not a sin to not go to daily mass, nor is it a sin to use NFP. Missing a Sunday mass is a sin, using NFP for non-serious reasons is a also a sin.

I NEVER, EVER persuade a couple to NOT use NFP. Even if the reason is seemingly selfish (they want a bigger house, but already live in a large four bedroom model and have only two children.) I may ask them to think twice about it, but their relationship with God and their idea of His will for them is what matters.

I promote NFP. I promote persons getting off of birth control and contraception. I praise God when couples choose NFP, when serious reasons arise, instead of turning away from Him with birth control or sterilization. I cheer for the mom who conceived after five years of trying with NFP. And I am SO thankful to you for letting me see how the wonderful and loving hand of God works in all your lives. :heaven:

We are on the same team, really we are. Both views are on the Church’s team. We are not all called to be the play the same positions, but we are all called to work together. :grouphug:

 

[Convert_in_99]

We now resume (hopefully) our regularly scheduled programing

Does anyone know of any foods/drinks/OTC supliments that aid fertility? Or anything to avoid?

I have heard something about caffiene being bad, but know that it helps my severe headaches and asthma without having to take so much tylenol/advil and asthma meds. (There really is caffiene like substances in asthma meds. Crazy, huh?!?!)

THANKS

 

[dkoinzan]

"I NEVER, EVER persuade a couple to NOT use NFP. Even if the reason is seemingly selfish (they want a bigger house, but already live in a large four bedroom model and have only two children.) I may ask them to think twice about it, but their relationship with God and their idea of His will for them is what matters. "

I also was not judging or trying to persuade you to use NFP. Understanding how your body works is a good thing. The Church teaches us to be responsible for our bodies and to take care of it. It is God’s. We are asked to use NFP to NOT CONCEIVE for only serious reasons. The Church incourages us to have children, so USING NFP TO CONCEIVE is a good thing.

 

[Teakafrog]

We now resume (hopefully) our regularly scheduled programing

Does anyone know of any foods/drinks/OTC supliments that aid fertility? Or anything to avoid?

I’m not sure I understand where you’re coming from. I’m not trying to pick a fight, honest, but I don’t get why you refuse to look at your own God-given natural fertility signs by learning about them through NFP, but you’re willing to put artificial supplements in your body to try to get pregnant? I’m confused.

 

[LittleDeb]

Convert in 99,
The Cross of infertility that we all have borne is bringing each of us in this thread to a deeper understanding of Church teaching. I hope you will be getting there too.

For many years I thought I had a good handle on it. I really thought that I knew better than God. Then I discovered the constant and consistent teachings of the Church. The door for me was Theology of the Body, the teachings of our late Holy Father Pope John Paul II. I discovered I had not just a “contraception mentality,” but an anti-God mentality. I found out that I really had a fundamental misunderstanding of what it meant to be human and most importantly for me, what it meant to be a woman.

Everyone has knowledge of fertility. It is written directly on our bodies. What I found through deep study was that there is a way to turn over our entire sexuality to God’s hands. Having knowledge of fertility doesn’t change that. I think the reason people here are concerned for you in your particular Cross of infertility is the expectation you might be placing on God. It sounds like (and I repeat sounds like because I can only go by what I read here) that you might be suffering a bit of an Evangelical “Health and Wealth Gospel.”

If you are not familiar with the term, it describes a line of thinking that is very foreign to Catholics. In these Evangelical circles people believe if they really just do everything right and really have faith that God will grant their dreams. It becomes an obsession for many and in my experience has the sad outcome of the words you used here. Paraphrased here but the thinking is, “My dreams aren’t coming true so I must be doing something wrong. I don’t feel blessed.” Infertility can be a tremendous cross to bear. I found when I was seeking support in Evangelical circles (because at the time I was pretty mad at the Church) their answer was always that I just didn’t have enough Faith. They too rejected a deeper understanding of fertility. They said it took away from God’s plan, just as you said, that it was not sinful, but not necessary if we were really letting God be in charge. The sad result was a loss of faith when it just wasn’t “enough” to get them pregnant.

Deliberate abstinence during fertility is the only thing the Church cautions for serious reason. Most couples who use a “just wing it” method are identical to most NFP couples. Both couples have turned their entire sexuality over to God. Wing it couples and NFP couples do not base their marital act on anything of this world. Not a chart, not a day of the week, not a “pretty please.” The simple prayer at the heart of both types of marriages is, “Not our will but Thine.” The only real difference is one couple looks out the window in joyful anticipation of their guest to arrive. The other just waits for the knock at the door.

Most of us have found that our cross of infertility is actually a blessing from God. (Most crosses usually are.) He is calling us to a deeper understanding of Him. He wrote all Truth directly on our bodies and souls. Theology of the Body helped me see that. My objections in all things Catholic were answered there. I no longer struggle with Church teaching on: an all male priesthood, same-sex unions, equality in marriage, contraception, IVF, and on and on. The most important lessons I learned there was on on the Marriage of Christ and His bride the Church; and the masculinity of God in giving and the feminine response He asks of us in receiving Him.

God bless you in your journey. Please don’t reject the gifts He has given us.

 

[Convert_in_99]

Does anyone know of any foods/drinks/OTC supliments that aid fertility? Or anything to avoid?

I have heard something about caffiene being bad, but know that it helps my severe headaches and asthma without having to take so much tylenol/advil and asthma meds. (There really is caffiene like substances in asthma meds. Crazy, huh?!?!

Here, I was simply refering to whether anyone knew of anything that they have found either through personal experience, or that of someone they know, foods, vitamins, minerals that aided fertility? Or, if there were OTC medicines (any kind), foods, drinks, or vitamins/minerals that lessened fertility. I especially wanted to know about the effects of drinks with caffiene, if anyone knew.

I am not going to ingest fertility drugs. :nope: Just looking at the basics that we all intake daily. I am on the younger side for today’s married women, and so don’t have the life experience that some may. I am also a convert to the Faith, and have lots to learn. So thanks for all the advice

I am sorry I have turned this thread into a debate. Lord have mercy on me. This is the path we and others have chosen, through prayer, study, counsel and discernment. I have sought counsel on this, and they agree this is God’s will for my husband and I right now.

Maybe it just comes down to this: some couples want to know if its a boy or a girl in the womb, some want it to remain a mystery, to be a special suprise for later. I guess we are of this last group. You guys are great, and good Catholic witnesses. Thanks for all your encouragement. I hope we (I am so glad to be a part of this thread! You all were heaven sent to me right now!) can continue to help many others bear the cross of infertility! :heaven: