Infidel

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Scholars do not agree that Aisha was 9. Some say 12, some say 15.

Moreover, they DO AGREE that she was NO LONGER A CHILD.

In England in the middle ages, a 7-year old boy was punished the same was a 30-year old man would be punished for the same crime. In oral cultures, when a child is able to fully articulate himself as an adult he was considered to be one, tried and punished as one. Not in Islam, by the way. Islam wouldn’t let that happen.

I agree with ZuZu here that Namesake should go study anthropology.
Who are those scholars and why do they agree that Aisha was no longer a child? These must be the questions we must answer next.

What does the unusual story of a 7-year-old boy in England have to do with Aisha’s marriage to a man that is too old for her? 🤷
 
The evidence of Aisha’s dolls and her pre-pubescence at the consummation of the “marriage”:

**Aisha’s Age of Consummation **

http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Aisha’s_Age_of_Consummation

Summary of the evidence provided on the link above (copy and paste the link into browser if it’s not hyperlinked for you):

In Part 1, it is proven that in Islam, doll-playing girls are pre-pubescent according to the doll-playing exegesis of Ibn Hajar and Islamic laws and customs.

In Part 2, it is proven that using Ibn Hajar’s doll-playing exegesis, Aisha can be proven to be still pre-pubescent when she married and had intercourse with Muhammad.

In Part 3, it is proven that Aisha was still pre-pubescent as late as 6-7 years after her marriage to Muhammad.
 
Scholars do not agree that Aisha was 9. Some say 12, some say 15.

Moreover, they DO AGREE that she was NO LONGER A CHILD.

In England in the middle ages, a 7-year old boy was punished the same was a 30-year old man would be punished for the same crime. In oral cultures, when a child is able to fully articulate himself as an adult he was considered to be one, tried and punished as one. Not in Islam, by the way. Islam wouldn’t let that happen.

I agree with ZuZu here that Namesake should go study anthropology.
But, we now know that such practices were and are wrong. Just because they did that heinous stuff because they were primitive doesn’t grant us permission to accept their heinousness. We have come a long way and people like Muhammad were perverts. Islam should come along with the rest of the enlightened world and reject such behavior. It’s inconceivable that you would defend such behavior in light of modern understanding. Muhammad was a bad guy. Come into the present and join those of us who understand how vile Islam is.
 
But there’s a problem. In his marriage to a child, Muhammad can’t be considered a man for all ages and for all people:

youtube.com/watch?v=Q0Lt38UpR0g

When he brought Aisha to his home, she brought her dolls, by the way. When she was placed on his lap before consummation, her nurse took her off a swing she was being pushed on, washed her face and her mother placed her on Muhammad’s lap. Sounds like a child to me. What adult is pushed on a swing by their nurse and has an adult wash their face?
Ehh? Let me remind you of what I said: scholars agree that Aisha was not a child when she went to Muhammad’s house. Maybe when they were engaged. I have not ever heard this story you’re telling, so I am initially inclined to doubt its authenticity. I am not aware that Aisha even had a nurse. Soo… again. When the marriage was consummated she wasn’t a child, and it was certainly not anything strange in that society, and it DEFINITELY wasn’t child molestation–proven by the giant of a woman Aisha came to be, as I’ve said, one of the greatest women who ever lived.
 
But, we now know that such practices were and are wrong. Just because they did that heinous stuff because they were primitive doesn’t grant us permission to accept their heinousness. We have come a long way and people like Muhammad were perverts. Islam should come along with the rest of the enlightened world and reject such behavior. It’s inconceivable that you would defend such behavior in light of modern understanding. Muhammad was a bad guy. Come into the present and join those of us who understand how vile Islam is.
Muhammad was not a bad guy. If he was as bad as you think, how did Aisha become as great as she was? Just think about it.
 
Muhammad was not a bad guy. If he was as bad as you think, how did Aisha become as great as she was? Just think about it.
Does that mean that this girl’s heroism came from her husband, too? She couldn’t possible be heroic unless her husband didn’t beat and abuse her?

youtube.com/watch?v=GhCtg1tSEHQ

Girls only mature into meaningful women if they have good husbands? That’s a rather bizarre statement. Out of curiosity, what specifically (other than being obedient to Muhammad) do Muslims consider her “greatness”?
 
Ehh? Let me remind you of what I said: scholars agree that Aisha was not a child when she went to Muhammad’s house. Maybe when they were engaged. I have not ever heard this story you’re telling, so I am initially inclined to doubt its authenticity. I am not aware that Aisha even had a nurse. Soo… again. When the marriage was consummated she wasn’t a child, and it was certainly not anything strange in that society, and it DEFINITELY wasn’t child molestation–proven by the giant of a woman Aisha came to be, as I’ve said, one of the greatest women who ever lived.
So far you have said that she wasn’t a child even though she was only nine years old by most accounts. I assure you that by the morals and laws of contemporary western societies she was a child incapable of consenting to sex with an old geezer like Muhammad. It was, according to enlightened standards, child molestation. Enlightened societies understand something about human development and and we understand that sex with children is very wrong. Islam defends sex with children.
 
…how did Aisha become as great as she was? Just think about it.
A child and favorite wife of 12 to a powerfull man, daughter to his best friend who gave her to Mohammed at 6 yrs old, and her dad became the next leader of the Muslims after Mohammeds death. Called ‘mother of believers’ who was never a mother.
 
Islam defends sex with children.
And the reason this is an issue for we, the non-Muslims of the world, is that Muhammad is still the paradigm for relations between the sexes in Islam today. It is culturally still accepted in Islamic countries for old men to have “brides” as young as 9. This is why this is so troubling, and why we can see that Muhammad is not a man for all times and all places.
 
Muhammad was not a bad guy. If he was as bad as you think, how did Aisha become as great as she was? Just think about it.
Muhammad had sex with a child of nine years of age. That’s a very bad guy. Muhammad wrote things about Christians and Jews that are unacceptable. He wrote, in the Q’uran that women are not equal to men. And lots of other nasty stuff. Muhammad was a really bad guy and his religion infects the world with evil. Take a look at the 9/11 attacks all in the name of the god of Islam.

It’s not a viable religion, it’s not peaceful, it’s pure evil and should be wiped out in every corner of the world.
 
Again, this video becomes most relevant at 2:00 to the end:

youtube.com/watch?v=Q0Lt38UpR0g

If Muhammad is the model, the universal paradigm for all of mankind, his lifestyle should be relevant for all of mankind for all times.
Actually there is a concept in the derivation of Islamic law (fiqh) call URF. Funny looking word, huh? 'Urf. Anyway, it means the cultural situations of a particular place. What is the law in some places is not the law in other places because there are different cultural norms. Some Muslim sheikh once asked a Jewish rabbi at what age Jewish girls could be married off. Most will wait until she’s at least 12 but they would actually often arrange the marriage before that. And there are some opinions that the girl can even be married before that. I say this only to prove it’s not something strange in Islam, but something that was permitted even in Judaism for young girls to be married.

And scholars I listen to tend to favor the age of 12 for Aisha, actually, but there is dispute.
 
Actually there is a concept in the derivation of Islamic law (fiqh) call URF. Funny looking word, huh? 'Urf. Anyway, it means the cultural situations of a particular place. What is the law in some places is not the law in other places because there are different cultural norms.
Just try to make that look real with regard to the many situations in Europe wherein Muslims have gone berserk over cartoons. Just try to make that case for England where Muslims are demanding their own legal system.

You can’t be serious. Islam is all about controlling the whole world and I bet you know that full well.
 
Just try to make that look real with regard to the many situations in Europe wherein Muslims have gone berserk over cartoons. Just try to make that case for England where Muslims are demanding their own legal system.

You can’t be serious. Islam is all about controlling the whole world and I bet you know that full well.
Controlling the whole world? Bwahaha? Come on. Be serious. 🙂

I’m sorry I confused you using a funny word like 'urf. It didn’t mean that Muslims don’t have to follow Shari’ah. It means that Shari’ah is flexible and can change based on some cultrual norms. Imam Ash-Shafi’i had one kind of fiqh (way of deriving shari’ah) while living in Iraq or Arabia but then when he moved to Egypt, he change it!! Because the people there were different, had different issues. There are other matters of higher importance when deriving rulings, but some things that Muhammad did were customary in that society–and in that case, might not apply to all peoples at all times as some people have suggested.

🙂
 
There are other matters of higher importance when deriving rulings, but some things that Muhammad did were customary in that society–and in that case, might not apply to all peoples at all times as some people have suggested.

🙂
Which means he is inferior to Jesus.
 
Which means he is inferior to Jesus.
Really? Because every single person is supposed to live exactly like Jesus? Be born of virgins and crucified in their 30s, never getting married…?
 
Really? Because every single person is supposed to live exactly like Jesus? Be born of virgins and crucified in their 30s, never getting married…?
Of course, Mohammad was inferior to Jesus. Not only to Jesus of the NT, but also to the Issa of the Koran. Issa was always a righteous believer and knew the scripture perfectly well whereas Mohammad had remained a pagan and known nothing about scripture or faith until he was 40!
 
Really? Because every single person is supposed to live exactly like Jesus? Be born of virgins and crucified in their 30s, never getting married…?
Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. There is no comparison. You should research what Jesus taught. It should make Muhammad hide in shame.
 
Going back to the topic, it’s been long established now that Ayaan Hirsi Ali made the whole story up to gain Dutch citizenship (HERE, HERE, HERE and HERE).
 
Going back to the topic, it’s been long established now that Ayaan Hirsi Ali made the whole story up to gain Dutch citizenship (HERE, HERE, HERE and HERE).
And look at the Muslim leader saying she deserves the death sentence:

“Although ElBayly believes a death sentence is warranted for Hirsi Ali, he stressed that America is not the jurisdiction where such a crime should be punished. Instead, Hirsi Ali should be judged in a Muslim country after being given a trial, he added.”

pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/rss/print_503977.html

Death sentence for what? For speaking against Islam? This is the United States. If Muslims can’t assimilate and embrace the value of freedom of speech, they can go back to a Muslim country, too.
 
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