Infidelity/husband

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No offense kbachler, but I tend to think that there is no “joint solution” to the issues of sex addiction.
None taken. ALL solutions to marriage problems are joint solutions, because they involve two people. I never suggested that there was a joint solution to “sex addiction”. I suggested that there were things that both would need to do to make the marriage stronger.
And I speak that from experience. My wife was not causing me to act out. We had relations fairly frequently, though perhaps not as much as I would like, but that was totally irrelevant. I chose to “self-medicate” because that’s what I have done for most of my life.
I never said that his wife was causing him to act out. NO ONE ever causes ANYONE to act out, irrespective of the behavior of the first person, the second always has a choice about responding in an appropriate way or an inappropriate way.

In fact, if you read more carefully, I specifically said that the needs being met probably were not sexual. Which would of course mean that the amount of sex they are having wouldn’t necessarily have anything to do with it, right?

I’m beginning to wonder if you read my post before you responded, or if you responded to some script in your head?
I’m a very anxious person and reality scared the living daylights out of me. So what did I do? Retreat into fantasy in the form of pornography. There I could get all that I wanted and nothing was expected from me. I got my satisfaction without having to talk to anyone.

Of course, my deception and sin led to guilt, paranoia and anger.
Sorry to hear that - you’re not contradicting anything I said.
The underlying problem is almost always not something that’s a joint issue.
You aren’t listening to what I wrote. I never said that the underlying problem was a joint issue. Strengthening the marriage IS a joint issue. Stopping specific behaviors is not.
The solution has to be one that he does on his own. Are there things that the OP can do to help it along? Sure! There’s plenty that my wife could do, namely take steps to actually work on healing herself, that would make our marriage better. But I and the reason that she is hurting, I am the reason that we are in the situation we are in and the only person who can decide to turn my reality over the care of God is me. No one else.

Making this a “joint issue” from the get go could lead to him abdicating at least some of the responsibility for his choices. Couples counseling should come after he starts addressing his own actions. Not before.
I think you should actually go back and read the post I wrote now. I hope you didn’t throw the OP off from what I was actually saying with your response.

And yes, there are others in the world that have experience with this issue. And yes, there is a better than even probability that they separately brought different issues to the marriage that acting in conjunction compounded the issue, so that there are likely things that both need to work on to strengthen the marriage – that is not saying that they have the same problem, or that one partner “caused” the other’s problem.
 
Wow! Did he get an appointment after you brought up the problem with him?

Obviously, this has only begun, but I think that the problem is improving already and I am gld to see it happen so soon.
Yes, I told him that I had been to see a therapist - which for some reason was a very hard thing to do.
The therapist told me that two things needed to happen - number one, that I demand that he seek counseling and number two, that I go to a free half hour preliminary appt. with a lawyer to see where I stand financially in case we can’t work this out.

I told my husband this very politely, asked him if he wanted the marriage to work, he said he knows he needs help and he made an appointment. It is for this week.
I decided not to talk to a lawyer until after his appointment, but I still may. My knees will be knocking together in terror at that appointment.

The therapist told me this problem is becoming increasingly common, and I can only imagine the suffering out there because of it. It is really horrible. It has taken a terrible toll on my self-respect. It feels like being in a polygamous marriage. By the way, thank God the U.S. outlawed that. We can only hope that continues.

Thank you for your support - it has really helped.
 
Yes, I told him that I had been to see a therapist - which for some reason was a very hard thing to do.
The therapist told me that two things needed to happen - number one, that I demand that he seek counseling and number two, that I go to a free half hour preliminary appt. with a lawyer to see where I stand financially in case we can’t work this out.

I told my husband this very politely, asked him if he wanted the marriage to work, he said he knows he needs help and he made an appointment. It is for this week.
I decided not to talk to a lawyer until after his appointment, but I still may. My knees will be knocking together in terror at that appointment.

The therapist told me this problem is becoming increasingly common, and I can only imagine the suffering out there because of it. It is really horrible. It has taken a terrible toll on my self-respect. It feels like being in a polygamous marriage. By the way, thank God the U.S. outlawed that. We can only hope that continues.

Thank you for your support - it has really helped.
I’m very sorry to read what you’ve been going through, Katherine. It’s good, though, that you went to the appointment with the therapist and that your husband now has an appointment. Sounds like excellent steps in the right direction. I was in a similar situation with my husband - he wasn’t having online affairs that I know of, but he was definitely into porn and self-sex with it. And unlike your husband, mine is Catholic - although he can get very negative about Catholicism, unfortunately, much like yours. And refuses to go to Confession for anything, anytime, for the past several decades. Yet still receives the Holy Eucharist, unfortunately. Very stubborn, very angry and opinionated often about many things, and won’t listen to reason most of the time, including in regards to Catholicism. Definitely a cafeteria Catholic who picks and chooses what he wants to do.
Anyway, you might wish to join the women’s support group here at CAF titled, “Women Suffering Because of Unchastity.” It deals specifically with the hurt caused by the porn issue and has helped me a lot in my marriage.
Peace and God’s love always.
 
Agreed. As someone who is in recovery for pornography addiction I assure you that this will not stop until there are real consequences and he sees no alternative but to seek treatment.

I don’t from personal experience have any idea about what to do with regard to the emotional affairs; never engaged in that. But I do know that when in my addiction I was emotionally abusive, scared my wife and children and basically set fire to my family.

The road back is long and twisting and cannot be walked alone. But it can be walked.
God bless you for walking that road.
 
I’m very sorry to read what you’ve been going through, Katherine. It’s good, though, that you went to the appointment with the therapist and that your husband now has an appointment. Sounds like excellent steps in the right direction. I was in a similar situation with my husband - he wasn’t having online affairs that I know of, but he was definitely into porn and self-sex with it. And unlike your husband, mine is Catholic - although he can get very negative about Catholicism, unfortunately, much like yours. And refuses to go to Confession for anything, anytime, for the past several decades. Yet still receives the Holy Eucharist, unfortunately. Very stubborn, very angry and opinionated often about many things, and won’t listen to reason most of the time, including in regards to Catholicism. Definitely a cafeteria Catholic who picks and chooses what he wants to do.
Anyway, you might wish to join the women’s support group here at CAF titled, “Women Suffering Because of Unchastity.” It deals specifically with the hurt caused by the porn issue and has helped me a lot in my marriage.
Peace and God’s love always.
Thank you so much. I wish my husband at least had your’s upbringing. I think you will be able to get him to remember what is right. I am sorry about your suffering; however, somehow for you I think it will be ok in the end. I completely understand what you are going through. The people who put this porn/ashley madison stuff together, I wonder if they know how much harm they do? What did Jesus say, pray for your enemies?
Thank you for your help. I will check out the “women suffering because of unchastity,” as you recommend. Thank you.
 
Thank you, I will try to read those books. I am so torn, because I am tired of being hurt and almost want to be alone. But when you take vows to stay til death you part before God, a vow is a vow.

I don’t know. Thank God for Catholicism. I consider myself to be educated and well read, but it is really the only thing on this earth that really makes sense to me.

Thank you, again
Thanks for the update, Katherine. I hope some of those books prove helpful. And, you’re right, our faith in God makes such a huge difference in being able to get though tough times like these. So, I’ll continue praying you’ll know where God is leading you. Blessings, friend.
 
I cannot tell you how much comfort it has given me to hear from a man who has had the same issues as my husband. It takes a lot of guts to say that you are the one who has to take responsibility. How often do any of us do that.

It is true that in my marriage I have not been an angel, but I certainly was having sex with my husband a normal amount. Not that I am as pretty as I used to be when we first got married.

Thank you for providing a male perspective.
None taken. ALL solutions to marriage problems are joint solutions, because they involve two people. I never suggested that there was a joint solution to “sex addiction”. I suggested that there were things that both would need to do to make the marriage stronger.

I never said that his wife was causing him to act out. NO ONE ever causes ANYONE to act out, irrespective of the behavior of the first person, the second always has a choice about responding in an appropriate way or an inappropriate way.

In fact, if you read more carefully, I specifically said that the needs being met probably were not sexual. Which would of course mean that the amount of sex they are having wouldn’t necessarily have anything to do with it, right?

I’m beginning to wonder if you read my post before you responded, or if you responded to some script in your head?

Sorry to hear that - you’re not contradicting anything I said.

You aren’t listening to what I wrote. I never said that the underlying problem was a joint issue. Strengthening the marriage IS a joint issue. Stopping specific behaviors is not.

I think you should actually go back and read the post I wrote now. I hope you didn’t throw the OP off from what I was actually saying with your response.

And yes, there are others in the world that have experience with this issue. And yes, there is a better than even probability that they separately brought different issues to the marriage that acting in conjunction compounded the issue, so that there are likely things that both need to work on to strengthen the marriage – that is not saying that they have the same problem, or that one partner “caused” the other’s problem.
 
I cannot tell you how much comfort it has given me to hear from a man who has had the same issues as my husband. It takes a lot of guts to say that you are the one who has to take responsibility. How often do any of us do that.

It is true that in my marriage I have not been an angel, but I certainly was having sex with my husband a normal amount. Not that I am as pretty as I used to be when we first got married.

Thank you for providing a male perspective.
You’re welcome. In my marriage there is some issue of repressed sexuality for my wife; while that is definitely an issue that’s not the primary issue or sole issue. For me (and I think for many men) there is a need to be accepted, for who they are, by their wives. This often stems from various childhood issues including acceptance by their mother. Lack of sex can translate to lack of acceptance in the mind of the male. This translates to anger - anger leads to acting out. I find that my issues basically always are “at their most tempting” when I am angry. This indicates that while there may be issues of sex - the real issue is anger - most of which has nothing to do with my wife. (In a nutshell, while there were sex issues, I acted out primarily out of anger, not as a need for sex.) Irrespective of the reasons, I need to change my behavior, but that is often better accomplished if the behavior is better and more deeply understood.

That’s not to say that the wife doesn’t have involvement in the issue, or can’t help in solving it, even if she has no fault in the issue. If in some way an action of hers is a trigger (even if its a reasonable action by her) she can choose to help the husband be better by not being a trigger.

Of course, another key issue is feeling really open and honest enough to be able to talk about even the most difficult of subjects, no matter how intimate, how embarrassing, etc. It’s often the things that we cannot share that become the soil for future difficulties.

Marriages are a living entity comprised of two people. If a marriage is sick, even if through the actions of only one of the two, BOTH still have a responsibility to make it better. That doesn’t imply fault to both.
 
Thank you so much for this explanation. Men and women have a hard time understanding each other so your attempt to bridge the divide is good.

My husband always seems angry, about money, also about his mother - interestingly. I don’t dare to talk about her because she has passed away and it doesn’t feel right. She was very controlling towards him, full of rage (she had had a child who died young and never got over it; also I think her husband was unfaithful.) My husband and his mother fought constantly. Any advice about how to help my husband lose his anger toward women? It would be greatly appreciated.
By the way, he has a counseling appt. this week - his 2nd. What a miracle. I thought he would refuse to go, but he seems to be relieved to be talking to someone.
You men have it tough these days. There is so much temptation. I think an archbishop just came out and said that online porn and sex are hurting men so much. God bless you. Thank you for helping me.
You’re welcome. In my marriage there is some issue of repressed sexuality for my wife; while that is definitely an issue that’s not the primary issue or sole issue. For me (and I think for many men) there is a need to be accepted, for who they are, by their wives. This often stems from various childhood issues including acceptance by their mother. Lack of sex can translate to lack of acceptance in the mind of the male. This translates to anger - anger leads to acting out. I find that my issues basically always are “at their most tempting” when I am angry. This indicates that while there may be issues of sex - the real issue is anger - most of which has nothing to do with my wife. (In a nutshell, while there were sex issues, I acted out primarily out of anger, not as a need for sex.) Irrespective of the reasons, I need to change my behavior, but that is often better accomplished if the behavior is better and more deeply understood.

That’s not to say that the wife doesn’t have involvement in the issue, or can’t help in solving it, even if she has no fault in the issue. If in some way an action of hers is a trigger (even if its a reasonable action by her) she can choose to help the husband be better by not being a trigger.

Of course, another key issue is feeling really open and honest enough to be able to talk about even the most difficult of subjects, no matter how intimate, how embarrassing, etc. It’s often the things that we cannot share that become the soil for future difficulties.

Marriages are a living entity comprised of two people. If a marriage is sick, even if through the actions of only one of the two, BOTH still have a responsibility to make it better. That doesn’t imply fault to both.
 
Thank you so much for this explanation. Men and women have a hard time understanding each other so your attempt to bridge the divide is good.
Got thinking about you and hope you are doing well during the holiday season. I’m going to open up a lot here - I hope it helps you and others. The reason why is interspersed throughout but is clarified at the bottom. (See part 2).

This post is long hence the two parts.

I’ve spent quite some time in therapy in the past few years. This is my second time, and it is helping me to get to the real root of some issues. Often it is the interplay of several childhood issues that as an adult we are trying to resolve that cause us to act in ways that we really don’t understand or fully choose. My wife accompanied me for some time, but was never comfortable in therapy. While this helped our joint issues, I was able to accomplish more for myself once she stopped coming, and the therapist agreed this was good for me. An issue for the marriage is that she also has childhood issues but is less willing to define them as an issue that impacts our marriage and so she doesn’t see them as something to be worked on. It would help us if we were both working on our individual issues.

As I noted, I believe (and certainly many counselors/therapists, etc. indicate) that acceptance is very important to men. Perhaps this is in part because their stronger urges are less accepted, perhaps it is other childhood issues, or some combination thereof. I don’t know, for me personally it doesn’t matter why, it just IS.

In addition, I was a bright child in a bright family raised in a rural area with few friends nearby. I grew up alone much of the time or with adults or much older siblings (and later - much younger siblings) so I had few connections.

My family was lower middle class. My parents worked hard and did what they could. My mom had some issues with self esteem, weight, she never learned to drive, etc. My older brothers would tease me as older brothers will. But the response I got in my interactions when this would anger or upset me was “You shouldn’t feel that way” “They’re just playing” etc. The way I was corrected and raised was largely via being made to feel shame or to disavow the validity of my feelings. I can see today that this led to a disconnect between how I think and how I feel, and I still work to integrate this better.

This was all exacerbated by some terrible events when I was in 6th grade in 1968/89. I had my first male teacher who was a year or two older than my oldest brother. We were in a small town, he knew my family, my uncle the high school football coach, etc. etc. He stayed after school with me and we read books together, he taught me algebra etc. I met his fiancée and was invited to his wedding over Christmas break. He seemed to take a real interest in me and helped me to advance myself in ways other teachers did not.

A week before his wedding, he brutally and violently murdered his fiancée. (He beat her and asphyxiated her - I won’t go into more graphic detail here.) The way my mother told me about this (in a room decorated for Christmas - it was just a few days away, just a few days before Apollo 8 would circle the moon) was to come and tell me during Saturday morning cartoons. She told me his fiancée had been killed and when I said that he must feel terrible she said “They think he did it.” She then asked me if I was alright, and left - it wasn’t spoken of again.

I cried. I prayed that he hadn’t done it and if he had that he would turn himself in. In hindsight, my parents didn’t know how to talk to me about this. I was too young to know I needed help in dealing with it, but clearly I did need help.

It wasn’t until 20+ years later that I woke up one day and realized - I had likely been in danger.

It wasn’t until 45 years later that my therapist said to me “It wasn’t your fault” and it had an amazingly powerful emotional impact. You see - my teacher and I had read and talked about many things. And when we read Frankenstein and he talked about the scene where the monster strangles Victor Frankenstein’s just married wife, he said to me “Have you ever wondered what it would be like to let out all your anger, all your frustration, in one violent act.” In hindsight part of me realized that I was the only person in the world that had a clue that he was a monster - and I had done nothing to stop this. I was 11. I couldn’t have known. But I have carried that feeling for 45 years, and am still working through it now that I realize I have it.
 
Part 2

Three months after this murder, my brother - a 21 year old college senior - was apparently driving to a jewelry store to purchase an engagement ring for his fiancée’s birthday. For some reason he lost control of his car and struck a bridge abutment. His car essentially split in two. The motor crashed through the dashboard and his body slid down through the seatbelt and he was struck in the head.

At the same time I was playing basketball with friends at my best friend’s house. I suddenly froze, and someone passed the ball hard straight into my face. I was bleeding profusely, and about the time we cleaned up my nose, etc., my next older brother showed up to take me home. In the car he said my oldest brother had been in a car accident. I asked about him being in the hospital, how was he, etc. He said “He’s dead.” He then went on to explain to me that mom and dad were very broken up over this and that I couldn’t cry in front of them to help them to handle it.

At the funeral, the funeral director passed out tranquilizers to the family - even to me the 11 year old. It was the 60’s I guess. I didn’t take mine.

My brother’s funeral was on his fiancée’s birthday.

My father whom I already had a less than close relationship threw himself into raising money for the sports teams at the high school in honor of my brother. He was named father of the year in our small town. I felt alone. No one helped me to work through that grief.

A few months later our family was approached by the defense attorney for my teacher. I was asked if I would testify (as a character witness) in the trial. What was happening is that there was no defense - he had obviously committed the murder. He was not sane, but the insanity laws of the day were not good and he would not allow his attorney to plead insanity. The DA was out to make a name for himself also. The result was I agreed, my parents left the decision up to me. A few days after we landed on the moon, I was in a courtroom telling a jury what a wonderful teacher he was.

Can you imagine that you would let your 12 year old testify in a murder trial a few months after his brother died in an auto accident - a trial for a teacher who was close to your son and obviously, brutally and sexually murdered his fiancée? Would you leave the decision up to your son?

Does that seem like a good idea to anyone?

Now…before going on…I don’t blame my parents. They were doing the best they could. Money was tight. They were knocked for a loop with the events. But still - a child shouldn’t be dealing with adult issues.

OK - so let’s fast forward to a 50+ year old man. How does this affect him and his marriage?

In all sorts of ways. At odd times, his confidence is off. He is unable to express or understand his emotions because they don’t count. He often feels ashamed of the things he wants in life. He has difficulty asking for what he wants.

This is all true even though he is pretty successful in his career and his primary hobby - nationally recognized in each, in fact.

Intellectually, he’s worked around many of these issues over the years - he’s a bright guy. But he’s never fully integrated himself emotionally. And it shows up. When he says to his wife “I love you, I’m sexually attracted to you, can you do this in the bedroom, or will you wear a sexy nightie?” and she says “Its really not a good use of money” or “It isn’t necessary” then she doesn’t realize that what he feels in response is a lack of acceptance, ANOTHER denial of his feelings, shame, he doesn’t count, a lack of intimacy, anger, etc. And he thinks is SOLELY about her, when a lot of it is about his past, his parents, etc.

KNOWING this doesn’t necessarily fix it. But it is a start. EXPERIENCING fixes it. I have started letting myself experience grief over the events in 6th grade, and SURPRISE - it changes how I feel about my wife. (One surprise is that a source of some of the grief was grief for a boy who lost so much innocence in such a short time.)

To go through this process involves an openness of heart and mind (its easy to say that this is bunkem, but the results show otherwise) and honesty (sometimes that is very hard, especially when one has deep seated feelings of shame.)

So now - why did I share this? Because I wanted to let you know its a PROCESS, not a solution, and because it can take a lot of courage to go through that process, both by you and your husband. It takes a deeper level of commitment and honesty and trust. I have learned recently that some of my wife’s issues with trusting me (not undeserved) are holding back this process - and I’m frustrated that she isn’t addressing those issues more openly. I understand the issues; I accept that I am responsible for much of the problem. But it still requires BOTH of us to work on the problem in order to address it.

So - bottom line - this is about encouragement. This is hard. If you love your husband, let him know you’re committed even though there are times when other emotions flair, and encourage him about the process, and be involved in it for yourself and how you can grow. See your therapist as a coach in growing to be a better person. Be open to addressing issues, no matter how difficult they are. Be willing to talk - and even more willing to listen - about his mother. They are his feelings - and he may need you to listen to them in order to know that you accept him, even if you don’t fully agree with him. And expressing all of that (or any other feeling) is good.

My prayers and best wishes are with you. I hope you have a wonderful holiday season.
 
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