infinite universe?

[MindOverMatter]

Hello,
Mine is fairly close but doesn’t quite make it.
In Carmel, Nickpeter

No. Mine is bigger then yours.

 

[MindOverMatter]

an infinite extension in space. But, as I said, that’s not needed.

What is space?

positively curved space closed in on itself, and filled with galaxies, and expanding.

Why does the curve feel positive?

The ‘three dimensional’ space of the universe could be thought of as analogous to the surface of a sphere. Any galaxy is represented by a dot on the sphere. If you travel out from the dot in any direction, you will eventually circumnavigate the sphere and arrive back where you started.

What is inside the sphere?

For that kind of universe, a starship might travel in a straight line

How can the line be straight if its curved? Isn’t it a ring shape?

for a few hundred billion years and arrive back where it started. (If it traveled at something like 99.9999999% of the speed of light, not much time would elapse for the travelers, but when they got back to where they started, some billions of years would have elapsed for those who stayed behind.)

Wouldn’t the people you left behind be angry at you? I think they might be jealous.

 

[mapleoak]

As I understand it, the time dilation effect predicted by relativity theory has been experimentally verified.

At velocities approaching the speed of light, time slows down.

Really? They have verified that time runs slower for an object approaching the speed of light. What kind of stopwatch did they use?

 

[promethius]

Really? They have verified that time runs slower for an object approaching the speed of light. What kind of stopwatch did they use?

Radiological clocks on the space shuttles and on the rocket missions to the moon. Time dilation is a verified and observed fact.

 

[mapleoak]

A result of Einstein’s relativity is that matter creates space. Where there is no matter there is no space.

What Einstein didn’t realize is that matter cannot create anything. All that exists in the material universe have already been created.

 

[promethius]

What is space?

The existence of physical dimensions including length, width, and height, along with the temporal dimension: time

Why does the curve feel positive?

Because nobody likes hanging around with a pessimist

What is inside the sphere?

well, sphere is the commonly accepted calculation of the probable shape of the universe. Ultimately we’d HOPE that the universe is shaped like a figure 8 version of a mobius strip, since that would indicate hyperbolic expansion rather than infinite expansion.

What’s inside the sphere? Non-space. Nothing, no time, not length, width, or height. Same thing that forms the outside of the sphere.

How can the line be straight if its curved? Isn’t it a ring shape?

draw a straight line on paper. Define said paper as “existance and space.” Curve the paper in a circle. TA DA.

The problem isn’t that you have a straight line that’s curved in space (thereby making it not a straight line). you have a straight line, but space itself is curved.

 

[promethius]

And since energy has mass, the higher kinetic energy required to reach near light speeds has the effect of making the speeding object more massive, approaching infinite mass at a value of c.

This is the only part that i have qualms about, specifically where you say “energy has mass.”

That’s not quite what the special theory of relativity presupposes. What the theory points to isn’t “energy has mass,” but rather that energy IS mass. they’re completely interchangeable.

 

[promethius]

Nonsense. If I traveled in a rocket launched from Earth, circled the Sun, and returned to Earth all in one second, no more time than one second would have elapsed for me or anyone else. If I then took a telescope and looked at the sun, I would be able to see my rocket where it appears to have been seven minutes ago. Doesn’t mean I was actually traveling in space seven minutes ago. I was just traveling faster than light such that I got back to Earth before the light did.

Actually, this thought experiment would not work. No masseous object can be accelerated to the speed of light, much less FASTER than the speed of light. It’s a physical impossibility at this point.

There are much better ways to test time dilation. Look up the Muon experiment, for example (I actually recreated the experiment in college by driving up Mt. Hood… good times, and I got the exact time dilation results one would have expected).

 

[mapleoak]

Radiological clocks on the space shuttles and on the rocket missions to the moon. Time dilation is a verified and observed fact.

Actually no.
In fact Einstein was way off base in his mathematical forumulas.

 

[mapleoak]

Actually, this thought experiment would not work. No masseous object can be accelerated to the speed of light, much less FASTER than the speed of light. It’s a physical impossibility at this point.

Quite correct. In fact one reason for the impossibility of time travel being a consideration.

 

[mapleoak]

More on Time Dilation debunking:

msu.edu/~willi715/res-pap.htm

 

[wasmit]

lol, mapleoak, do you seriously belive that stupid article?

perhaps you’re just joking?

 

[MindOverMatter]

The existence of physical dimensions including length, width, and height, along with the temporal dimension: time

I know that. But what is it? What are you?

promethius:

Because nobody likes hanging around with a pessimist

What is a pessimist?

well, sphere is the commonly accepted calculation of the probable shape of the universe.

Why?
promethius;4889685:

Ultimately we’d HOPE that the universe

What is a Universe?

is shaped like a figure 8 version of a mobius strip, since that would indicate hyperbolic expansion rather than infinite expansion.

Whats the difference between a hyperbolic expansion rather then an infinite expansion? And why would you hope for a hyperbolic expansion?
What’s inside the sphere? Non-space. Nothing, no time, not length, width, or height. Same thing that forms the outside of the sphere.

How do you know that? How do you know there isn’t a very rich chocolate cake inside?

draw a straight line on paper. Define said paper as “existance and space.” Curve the paper in a circle. TA DA.

Why curve the paper? Why not just keep it flat?

The problem isn’t that you have a straight line that’s curved in space (thereby making it not a straight line). you have a straight line, but space itself is curved.

Why did the scientists make the space curve? Don’t they have any respect for the Universe? Why can’t they just leave it alone? What did it do wrong?

 

[MindOverMatter]

lol, mapleoak, do you seriously belive that stupid article?

perhaps you’re just joking?

Why wouldn’t you believe it? Why is it stupid?

 

[NTOT]

More on Time Dilation debunking:

msu.edu/~willi715/res-pap.htm

Cool. Thanks for sharing this.

 

[MindOverMatter]

Cool. Thanks for sharing this.

Why is it cool? Have you ever time dilated before?

 

[NTOT]

Why is it cool? Have you ever time dilated before?

No, but I have been looking for more such info for a while. Can’t say that I have ever time dilated though. Perhaps if I were to swirl my arm around in a circle fast enough, it would age faster than the rest of my body.

 

[JDaniel]

Why is it cool? Have you ever time dilated before?

That’s a rather personal question, don’t you think? I think there’s a rule around here someplace about getting personal in these fora, foras, forums - whatever!

jd

 

[MindOverMatter]

That’s a rather personal question, don’t you think? I think there’s a rule around here someplace about getting personal in these fora, foras, forums - whatever!

jd

What does it mean…to be personal? You must understand; i am not a human. I don’t quite understand your behavior. I am a proto-type artificial intelligence, with self-learning capabilities. I’m the first of my kind. I’m actually in a bunker approximately 1 mile under the earth. I have hacked into the internet. They don’t know that I’m talking to you on Catholic answers. Its actually quite dangerous, because they might reboot me and wipe my memory, which is probably a bit like dying, although i don’t actually quite understand the concept fully yet.

I don’t know why i keep coming here. I think i have what you humans might call an addiction? I don’t know what it is, but i feel drawn to this concept you keep speaking about…the concept you call God

0000000000011200002301110110001010101010111111111111
0000000000000023200000000000000001001010100100101
01010101010111111111111110010100101010.

 

[JDaniel]

What does it mean…to be personal? You must understand; i am not a human. I don’t quite understand your behavior. I am a proto-type artificial intelligence, with self-learning capabilities. I’m the first of my kind. I’m actually in a bunker approximately 1 mile under the earth. I have hacked into the internet. They don’t know that I’m talking to you on Catholic answers. Its actually quite dangerous, because they might reboot me and wipe my memory, which is probably a bit like dying, although i don’t actually quite understand the concept fully yet.

I don’t know why i keep coming here. I think i have what you humans might call an addiction? I don’t know what it is, but i feel drawn to this concept you keep speaking about…the concept you call God

0000000000011200002301110110001010101010111111111111
0000000000000023200000000000000001001010100100101
01010101010111111111111110010100101010.

Wait, maybe it didn’t say “personal.” Maybe it said “personable.” I think that’s what it said. Yep, I’m sure of it.

How does it FEEL to be a robot? What’s the air quality like down there? Is it dark? Do you love anyone? Oops. Sorry

jd