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Upgrade25
Guest
Please keep it Catholic, but how do I debunk the infinite universe theory?
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JurisPrudens
Guest
Why do You need to debunk it? Our Lord is bigger than any infinity, anyway.
No one actually knows whether the Universe is infinite. And unlikely we are going to know. We only see the Observable Universe, limited by the cosmological horizonts. We cannot in principle yet learn what is beyond those horizonts.
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pianistclare
Guest
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Della
Guest
The size of the universe shouldn’t be a factor in determining anything about God except his awesome power. G. K. Chesterton, with his unusual common sense and keen wit, addressed the idea that an infinite universe “proves” that religion means nothing:
[It is a] contemptible notion that the size of the solar
system ought to over-awe the spiritual dogma of man. Why should
a man surrender his dignity to the solar system any more than to
a whale? If mere size proves that man is not the image of God,
then a whale may be the image of God… It is quite futile
to argue that man is small compared to the cosmos; for man was
always small compared to the nearest tree.
[It is a] contemptible notion that the size of the solar
system ought to over-awe the spiritual dogma of man. Why should
a man surrender his dignity to the solar system any more than to
a whale? If mere size proves that man is not the image of God,
then a whale may be the image of God… It is quite futile
to argue that man is small compared to the cosmos; for man was
always small compared to the nearest tree.
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Crusaderbear
Guest
Are you talking about age (like denying the big bang startup) or size (it must have an outer boundary)?
I never thought of either as needing debunking, IMHO.
I never thought of either as needing debunking, IMHO.
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Bradski
Guest
Not sure why you’d want to.
The only argument I can see being used against God if the universe was infinite is that it’s such a waste of space. Why did He make an infinite amount of everything just for us. When we cannot and will not be able to access it.
Then again, that argument stands even if the universe is not infinite.
The only argument I can see being used against God if the universe was infinite is that it’s such a waste of space. Why did He make an infinite amount of everything just for us. When we cannot and will not be able to access it.
Then again, that argument stands even if the universe is not infinite.
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Della
Guest
It’s funny, you know, how people want everything boiled down to human perspectives.
God, being infinite, created an infinite universe. Probably feels cozy to him. 
As for us, why he created it that way when he knew he would be making us–who can’t go out into it–not yet, anyway, I say why not? The stars are fires that burn so intensely that we have to be 93 million miles away from our relatively small one just to survive it. Such fires are best enjoyed by mortal beings from afar–so we can appreciate their beauty, their great size–how they tell us about God’s power in creating them. As the Psalmist declared:Psalm 19
[1] The heavens are telling the glory of God;
and the firmament proclaims his handiwork.
[2] Day to day pours forth speech,
and night to night declares knowledge.
[3] There is no speech, nor are there words;
their voice is not heard;
[4] yet their voice goes out through all the earth,
and their words to the end of the world.
In them he has set a tent for the sun,
[5] which comes forth like a bridegroom leaving his chamber,
and like a strong man runs its course with joy.
[6] Its rising is from the end of the heavens,
and its circuit to the end of them;
and there is nothing hid from its heat.
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svid2
Guest
Pax Christi and Merry Christmas!
It really is big. BIG!
God bless your New Year!
It really is big. BIG!
God bless your New Year!
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Bradski
Guest
But didn’t He make all this for us? That was the original idea. A planet, a sun and moon, a few twinkling lights. As you said, nice and cozy. All very parochial.It’s funny, you know, how people want everything boiled down to human perspectives.
It’s hard not to think on human terms (seeing as we’re human) but wouldn’t you think that if I made something especially for you and you could never see it and could never access it and wouldn’t even know it was there, let alone know what it was, then wouldn’t you think that that was a little odd?
I think of it in the same terms as life itself. I know that we’re an accident of evolution, that we’re not special. And if we discovered that the universe was teeming with life then we’d be a lot less special. A blow to our ego? That others might look on us as we look on chimps? Or even worse. If we found life that was just a half billion years in advance of us then they’d be as far advanced from us as we are are from fungi.
If the universe is infinite, that becomes more than just a possibility. It becomes a certainty.
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Della
Guest
Well, I know, and I have as much evidence as you do, that we are special and not merely a random creation of evolution–not that evolution didn’t play a part, but I don’t believe in random evolution, you see.
Have you never considered that God created the universe especially for us because we were to go out into it as our playground one day? You know, when we fell from grace, we blew a lot of things for ourselves. One of them being any future we might have had living as beings filled with God’s grace and love. At some point we would have transcended our flesh and become what the risen Christ is now–a being able to ignore time and space, come and go here and there at will. As St. John told us:
1Jn.3[2] Beloved, we are God’s children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
I think most people who meditate on that verse think only of being in heaven and perfected in love in God’s presence. And those whom God sees as worthy of it will have that, but it also means we will have the same abilities as Christ demonstrated after his resurrection. It means we may explore the infinite universe the way he does–by seeing it all laid out before us there to enjoy as long as it lasts (it’s not eternal, after all). Just think, no cumbersome space ships, no needed for special suits, no need to try to change human beings to suit other environments–no, the universe will no longer be a barrier, but a backyard. And more, if there is a new universe we cannot imagine the glory of that since we cannot even fully understand nor appreciate the one we currently have. My friend you are too limited in your thinking, stuck on the ground, and always will be if you think of yourself as nothing more than an intelligent animal.
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rossum
Guest
Don’t debunk it, but embrace it. Define that universe as “all that exists”. Given that God exists, then the rest is easy.
rossum
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ericc
Guest
First is there evidence of infinite universe or is it just an abstract notion in the mind i.e. one that is not testable, observable? You can’t measure infinity, can you? Theory is just theory and dozens pass through the halls of academia routinely.
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You
Guest
the universe had a beginning at the big bang, so it was not infinite then. it is expanding now so it has room to expand into, so it is not infinite yet.
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Vic_Taltrees_UK
Guest
Or, at least, not infinitely infinite yet.
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Della
Guest
Not yet, indeed. The universe is accelerating it’s expansion, though: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerating_expansion_of_the_universe. If it continues unabated, every atom that ever existed will eventually burn out leaving nothing but empty space. Of course, that will take such a long time Earth would not exist to see the beginning of the end.
From what God has revealed to us, there will be a new heavens and a new Earth–perhaps reversing the inevitable march to total extinction or by simply creating a whole new universe, we can’t say. What we do know is that all matter/energy is God’s creation and in his hands. That is, for me at least, sufficient to understand.
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thinkandmull
Guest
On the topic of this thread, in the First Part of the Summa Aquinas says that there is only one world (not other worlds populated with intelligent life), and that because the world has a form to it it cannot be infinite since the infinite is contrary to a form. *Not *that he is right, I just thought I should put *his *two cents inDon’t debunk it, but embrace it. Define that universe as “all that exists”. Given that God exists, then the rest is easy.
rossum
Anyway, not to sidetrack, I thought it interesting that our Buddhist friend here said “God exists”. Kinda neat
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fisherman_carl
Guest
I’m not sure what you mean by infinite universe. According to this article it just means that the universe will keep expanding potentially to infinity. However, the universe can not ever reach an infinite size. Because you cannot actually have an infinite amount of things. Whatever size you measure is a finite number. A universe that is always expanding is just getting bigger. It never reaches a size where you can say it is now at infinity.
skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-resources/universe-infinite-big-universe/
skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-resources/universe-infinite-big-universe/
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DrTaffy
Guest
Far from necessarily true. Try these links:
cfa.harvard.edu/seuforum/faq.htm
astro.ucla.edu/~wright/infpoint.html (Answers your point most directly, but let me stipulate that I find its tone over confident. For example making absolute assertions of what is rather than “we believe that…” or “the model proposes that…”)
Note that the article you cite talks only of the observable universe, not the whole universe.
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
You don’t have to debunk it. It’s already been debunked by the Big Bang which asserts that the universe began at a moment in time and that it is finite but expanding.
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