Info on SDA (continued)

[me_again]

1. SDA’s refuse to acknowledge that the way in which God works here on this earth change.

Richard Kastner;6915278:

Malachi 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Richard Kastner’s quoting of these scriptures is completely out of context because the Lord changed from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant.

 

[me_again]

Many SDAs follow the Old Testament command to abstain from unclean meats. The deeper one goes into Adventism, the more rigid their eating standards become. New SDA candidates are first introduced to eating only clean meats, under the SDA belief that unclean meats are unhealthy to eat, as is prescribed by the Old Testament to the Jews.

As a candidate goes deeper into Adventism, he or she will be encouraged to abstain from meats entirely because their prophetess (Ellen Gould White) said that in the last days, the meat supply will become polluted and will become extremely unhealthy to eat (both clean and unclean meats). Many Adventists become totally vegan by completely abstaining from all animal products, to include fish, eggs, milk, etc.

Before Jesus was crucified, He ate lamb, as was the Jewish custom at passover. After Jesus rose from the dead, He ate fish to demonstrate to his disciples that He is flesh and blood – and not an ethereal spirit. Ellen White and other Adventist conveniently omit these dietary tidbits.

Adventism has an entire branch that is devoted exclusively to producing canned and frozen meatless products that look and taste like meat. It has been speculated that some of the unique ingredients in these products may be responsible for a higher incidence of cancer amongst Adventists, though there are no correlative studies to corroborate it.

Regarding stoning Saturday sabbath breakers, an Adventist will answer that one for our inquiring audience.

:tiphat:

Romans 14 addresses many of these SDA issues.

 

[Nicea325]

you still have not been able to give me ONE author who expounded Adventist teaching before the 1800s. if what the SDA teaches is correct, we would see authors all the way back expounding these beliefs. i can give you the answer though. the answer is ZERO. no SDA teachings prior to the 1800s. the burden is on you to produce them.

 

[Nicea325]

Richard Kastner’s quoting of these scriptures is completely out of context because the Lord changed from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant.

Yep! And I believe a dude by the name Jeremiah mentions a new convenant.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard Kastner’s quoting of these scriptures is completely out of context because the Lord changed from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant.

What context would that be me? I post them merely to show that the Lord does not change, but you say He does so we should probably believe you right? BTW The book of Hebrews is in the New Testament.

 

[me_again]

What context would that be me? I post them merely to show that the Lord does not change, but you say He does so we should probably believe you right? BTW The book of Hebrews is in the New Testament.

(1) SDAs claim that people are required to keep the Saturday sabbath.
(2) The Old Testament also says to stone (to death) Saturday sabbath breakers.
(3) Both are sabbath laws.

Do Adventist pick and choose which Saturday sabbath laws they are required to follow or are all the requirements to keep the Saturday sabbath sola scripture?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

(1) SDAs claim that people are required to keep the Saturday sabbath.
(2) The Old Testament also says to stone (to death) Saturday sabbath breakers.
(3) Both are sabbath laws.

Do Adventist pick and choose which Saturday sabbath laws they are required to follow or are all the requirements to keep the Saturday sabbath sola scripture?

I don’t understand what your point is me. Are you saying that we no longer have to keep the Perpetual covenant of the Sabbath because we no longer stone people? I don’t see how that follows.

 

[loneviking]

(1) SDAs claim that people are required to keep the Saturday sabbath.
(2) The Old Testament also says to stone (to death) Saturday sabbath breakers.
(3) Both are sabbath laws.

Do Adventist pick and choose which Saturday sabbath laws they are required to follow or are all the requirements to keep the Saturday sabbath sola scripture?

Yes, SDA’s certainly do pick and choose what laws to follow. And if the Lord did not change, as Richard claims, then the SDA’s should be stoning those members of their congregations who don’t follow the Levitical laws. Richards claims are demonstrably wrong as clearly the way in which God deals with mankind changes. That doesn’t mean that God changes, merely that He uses different tools at different times to accomplish His goals.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

And if the Lord did not change, as Richard claims, then the SDA’s should be stoning those members of their congregations who don’t follow the Levitical laws.

You say: “if the Lord did not change” which clearly implies that you think that He has changed. However this change seems to be predicated on whether or not we stone people who violate the Levitical laws. Then you say “Richards claims are demonstrably wrong”. Ok, my claim is that God does not change and I backed that up with vs. from Malachi and Heb. So you are not only saying that I am “demonstably wrong” you by extension are saying that the bible is demonstably wrong. Then you say

as clearly the way in which God deals with mankind changes. That doesn’t mean that God changes, merely that He uses different tools at different times to accomplish His goals.

So now I guess you are changing your mind and saying that I and the bible are no longer “demonstably wrong” So what changed from the begining of the paragraph to the end?

 

[loneviking]

You say: “if the Lord did not change” which clearly implies that you think that He has changed. However this change seems to be predicated on whether or not we stone people who violate the Levitical laws. Then you say “Richards claims are demonstrably wrong”. Ok, my claim is that God does not change and I backed that up with vs. from Malachi and Heb. So you are not only saying that I am “demonstably wrong” you by extension are saying that the bible is demonstably wrong. Then you say

So now I guess you are changing your mind and saying that I and the bible are no longer “demonstably wrong” So what changed from the begining of the paragraph to the end?

Not a thing—and your inability to follow what I said is reflected in what you’ve done to the Scriptures. You can’t follow them in a consistent manner, and you can’t interpret them according to context.

 

[loneviking]

Richard posted this:

Malachi 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever

Ok, my claim is that God does not change and I backed that up with vs. from Malachi and Heb.

O.K., Richard, now pay very close attention to what I wrote:

That doesn’t mean that God changes, merely that He uses different tools at different times to accomplish His goals

.

Now, based on the verses in Malachi and Hebrews—someone can either interpret them as you did (no change at all) or as I did (God doesn’t change but His methods of dealing with people do)…Are you with me so far?

 

[Ads]

Richard Kastner’s quoting of these scriptures is completely out of context because the Lord changed from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant.

Did the covenant change or was it broken and so a new one made?
If i made a agreement to meet you down the shops at 12pm and you did not show up the agreement is broken. Can i now change the agreement? No it no longer exists and i need to make a new covenant/agreement with you. This is the same with the new covenent, it’s new not a changed one.
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I WILL MAKE (not change!) with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Just felt like i needed to share.
God bless.

ps: Hope this posts ok, been a while.

 

[me_again]

Did the [old] covenant change or was it broken and so a new one made?.

Yes.

 

[me_again]

(1) SDAs claim that people are required to keep the Saturday sabbath.
(2) The Old Testament also says to stone (to death) Saturday sabbath breakers.
(3) Both are sabbath laws.

Do Adventist pick and choose which Saturday sabbath laws they are required to follow or are all the requirements to keep the Saturday sabbath sola scripture?
Richard Kastner;6917708:

I don’t understand what your point is me. Are you saying that we no longer have to keep the Perpetual covenant of the Sabbath because we no longer stone people? I don’t see how that follows.

Are SDAs required to keep the Saturday sabbath?

Are SDAs required to stone (to death) sabbath breakers?

Both of the above are sabbath laws.

 

[benidict]

benidict;6914717:

And Richard will not give ONE author or give any because the SDA church is novelty compared to 1800 years historical Christianity. As you stated,if the SDA teachings are true,they would be traced back to the Apostles.

nice! im so happy you chose to join us nicea! thank you. i know it get redundant, but we must think of those that are reading and may be influenced by the light we shine on this group. perhaps some will decide not to go this route. Peace to you and yours

 

[benidict]

Did the covenant change or was it broken and so a new one made?
If i made a agreement to meet you down the shops at 12pm and you did not show up the agreement is broken. Can i now change the agreement? No it no longer exists and i need to make a new covenant/agreement with you. This is the same with the new covenent, it’s new not a changed one.
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I WILL MAKE (not change!) with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Just felt like i needed to share.
God bless.

ps: Hope this posts ok, been a while.

thank you for sharing, and i see your screen name, is SDA spelled backwards. your were not slick enough. so come out of the closet, and put adventist up on your affiliation. glad to have you here too! im gonna ask you a similar question i have asked others. i cant get a clear answer. actually a few questions. bear with me. 1 since the law has not been changed, are you able to keep all 600 plus commandments? also since the law has not been changed, do you agree with the murderers at salem who put to death “witches”? also were you aware, that if E.G. White, had been an israelite, and prophesied as she did, that she would have been stoned as a false prophet, according to the same law? now, have changes been made, or shall we start stoning the sabbath breakers? also how are familiar are you with all the property laws in the old covenant? do you believe it is ok to have more than one wife? did you know, that if one of the wives is unloved, HER first born son is to inheiret, reguardless if the other wife had a son before him? were you aware, that the concoction the priest brewed, when a woman was suspected of adultry by her husband, induced an abortion? just some thoughts. i just felt a need to share. Peace

 

[CatholicLover]

thank you for sharing, and i see your screen name, is SDA spelled backwards. your were not slick enough. so come out of the closet, and put adventist up on your affiliation. glad to have you here too! im gonna ask you a similar question i have asked others. i cant get a clear answer. actually a few questions. bear with me. 1 since the law has not been changed, are you able to keep all 600 plus commandments? also since the law has not been changed, do you agree with the murderers at salem who put to death “witches”? also were you aware, that if E.G. White, had been an israelite, and prophesied as she did, that she would have been stoned as a false prophet, according to the same law? now, have changes been made, or shall we start stoning the sabbath breakers? also how are familiar are you with all the property laws in the old covenant? do you believe it is ok to have more than one wife? did you know, that if one of the wives is unloved, HER first born son is to inheiret, reguardless if the other wife had a son before him? were you aware, that the concoction the priest brewed, when a woman was suspected of adultry by her husband, induced an abortion? just some thoughts. i just felt a need to share. Peace

I’ve been avoiding answering the question about stoning those who break the Sabbath because it seems like a rather silly question. There is a definate difference between the law and the punishment for breaking the law. The law is “Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy.” Not keeping the Sabbath day Holy is a sin. The punishment for that sin was being stoned to death.

Jesus’ sacrifice is sufficient to atone for our sins.
Heb 9:28 - “So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”

 

[CatholicLover]

oh i think these points are very relevant. we are talking about an unbroken line that can be traced back to the apostles, and Christ. the adventist have stated that their teachings are all biblically based, and that they can be traced back to the time of the apostles. when the facts are, they cannot trace any of their unique beliefs, including their view of the sabbath, beyond the supposed visions of E.G. White. to state that you are the Church Christ founded, is very relevant. you have not stated this, but others have. if i have to, i will go back and find these quotes. the sabbath view you believe is that anyone who does not worship on this particular day, will at some point recieve the mark of the beast. this view was NEVER taught before E.G. Whites supposed visions. not by the apostles, not by the early Church fathers, not by anyone. you cannot defend the scapegoat doctrine, since that is a figment of imaginiation on the the part of your prophetess too. to come to the cleansing of the sanctuary doctrine you really have to deny alot of historical fulfillments to to daniel, and you really have to do some serious gymnastics biblically. these are not cheap shots. you still have not been able to give me ONE author who expounded Adventist teaching before the 1800s. if what the SDA teaches is correct, we would see authors all the way back expounding these beliefs. i can give you the answer though. the answer is ZERO. no SDA teachings prior to the 1800s. the burden is on you to produce them. Peace :coffeeread:

 

[Javl]

There does seem to be some debate on this topic but the fact is, the earliest text known is in Greek. You can only be speculating on the use of the word Cephas in the original writing. Further, if we are speculating, it seems to me that if the original writing had been in Aramaic and was subsequently translated into Greek, the Greek translation would not contain the play on words Petros and petra unless there were a similar play on words in the Aramaic text.

From any concordance that I have refered to, it is said that the construction of the text follows Aramaic phraseology, usage, etc. Therefore the original had to have been in Aramaic and then translated into Greek. As for the play on words, that is strictly a translators “play on words” since in Aramaic words have no gender.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[me_again]

Are SDAs required to keep the Saturday sabbath?

Are SDAs required to stone (to death) sabbath breakers?

Both of the above are sabbath laws.
CatholicLover;6920247:

I’ve been avoiding answering the question about stoning those who break the Sabbath because it seems like a rather silly question. There is a definate difference between the law and the punishment for breaking the law. The law is “Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy.” Not keeping the Sabbath day Holy is a sin. The punishment for that sin was

being stoned to death.

Jesus’ sacrifice is sufficient to atone for our sins.
Heb 9:28 - “So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”

You are having difficulty because you know that the Saturday sabbath laws were abolished under the Old Covenant.

The Saturday sabbath was for the Jews only**:**

Remember that you [Jews] were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the [Saturday] Sabbath day. (Deut. 5:15)

The Jews were required to stone (to death) those who violated the Jewish Saturday sabbath**:**

And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the [Saturday] sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses. (Numbers 15:32-36)

The Old Covenant has been abolished and nailed to the cross of Calvary. A New Covenant has replaced it. Christians celebrate the resurrection of Jesus on the Lord’s day, which is Sunday.