Info on SDA (continued)

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The SDAs have a re-written bible called The Clear Word Bible. Do a google search on that term and you’ll get multiple hits on it. It’s been rewritten to give credence to Ellen White’s beliefs in Jewish sabbath keeping on Saturday, the soul sleep heresy, the SDA 1844 investigative judgment, etc. :eek:
Thanks for the info, me. I’ll have to get a copy for my library.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Thank you Benedict. I just hope I truly can shed some light on SDA’s. You find 'em on just about every internet forum and they really puzzle and frustrate a lot of Christians. One important point that goes along with my post is that many SDA’s use that system of proving their beliefs honestly. They don’t do it maliciously, they truly see that as the only approach that makes sense and they also have a prophet that agrees with that approach. That’s why arguing Scripture with an SDA just doesn’t work—they have a system that seems to work and they don’t understand why you don’t see the logic of it!

If you ask most former SDA’s what it takes to get an SDA to really listen, it will either be:
  1. The SDA is tired of the cognotive dissonance (the contradictions that crop up from the approach that they use) or
  2. The SDA is spiritually starving because there are questions they have that they can’t answer using the SDA approach to Scripture.
Without a spiritual crisis to get their attention, most SDA’s will not be bothered at all by any of your arguments.
Thank you again, and God Bless, for the information. I praise the Lord for His graces in letting you realize and learn the truths as taught by Jesus and the Apostles.

From what you say I pray that those SDA, especially Richard, are not lost causes and soon realize how brainwashed they are and how deep they are in the morass of Ellen White’s heresy and errors.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
I’m a former SDA, third generation at that, 40 years in the [SDA] church.
loneviking:

Here are a couple of questions for you, if you find time to answer.
  • #1: What is your assessment of Ellen White??? Do you think she was:
  • mentally ill?
  • possessed or oppressed?
  • inspired?
    .
    She made some pretty nutty comments. However, there are some SDAs who claim she’s God’s last day prophetess before the return of Jesus. On the one hand, she points to Jesus, but on the other hand, she made some false prophecies and she claimed that some heresies were from the Lord (and that can’t be true). She also led many people down various paths of lies and heresies. What is your honest assessment of Ellen White?
    .
  • #2: Do you believe in the SDA doctrine of soul sleep? Why or why not?
    .
  • **#3:**What led you out of Adventism? Was it a personal revelation from the Lord or something else?
Please don’t rush into any answers. Take your time as you think, meditate and deliberate. 🙂
 
That’s probably one of the reasons why they haven’t pushed it on us. If they believe it and push that “doctrine” then they’ll really be a non-Christian cult. It’s bad enough that they’re so adament and persistent in propagating their heresies.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
i do believe you are correct my friend. but i for one think this should be discussed. it is my understanding that james white was NOT a trinitarian. the teachings of michael would fit right in with this. maybe it got slipped in there, so Ellen and James could have a more harmonious marriage? again, self serving teaching? so how bout it my Adventist friends? was Jesus the arch angel michael before his birth in bethlehem? your thoughts please? thanx in advance. Peace 🙂
 
The SDAs have a re-written bible called The Clear Word Bible. Do a google search on that term and you’ll get multiple hits on it. It’s been rewritten to give credence to Ellen White’s beliefs in Jewish sabbath keeping on Saturday, the soul sleep heresy, the SDA 1844 investigative judgment, etc. :eek:
thank you so much for this valuable information me again. i will have to research it. i have never heard of this translation. good deal.👍 if they have done this, then, they are as guilty as the jws. should be interesting checking this out. have you had a chance to read it? anything you can share that they may have changed? or is it more in the footnotes that most of the changes were made? by the way, i love how you are challenging if Ellens writings are a result of embellishment, or visions 😃 that is sheer genius! Peace 🙂
 
wow, i just answered my own question. check out what changes the Adventist made to deuteronomy 5:3. interesting that their argument falls apart that the law was given to adam and eve, given any other translations rendering of this verse. just starting my research. me again, i think you just gave us a very valuable tool in this standoff of ideologies. you get the prize! im sure you are familiar with left flank, and lift and shift. we are ready to lift and shift. you may now charge through the objective…Grace and peace to you. and very good work! 🙂
 
loneviking:

Here are a couple of questions for you, if you find time to answer.
  • #1: What is your assessment of Ellen White??? Do you think she was:
  • mentally ill?
  • possessed or oppressed?
  • inspired?
    .
    She made some pretty nutty comments. However, there are some SDAs who claim she’s God’s last day prophetess before the return of Jesus. On the one hand, she points to Jesus, but on the other hand, she made some false prophecies and she claimed that some heresies were from the Lord (and that can’t be true). She also led many people down various paths of lies and heresies. What is your honest assessment of Ellen White?
    .
  • #2: Do you believe in the SDA doctrine of soul sleep? Why or why not?
    .
  • **#3:**What led you out of Adventism? Was it a personal revelation from the Lord or something else?
Please don’t rush into any answers. Take your time as you think, meditate and deliberate. 🙂
Thank you, and I’ll post a response before too long…
 
Thank you Benedict. I just hope I truly can shed some light on SDA’s. You find 'em on just about every internet forum and they really puzzle and frustrate a lot of Christians. One important point that goes along with my post is that many SDA’s use that system of proving their beliefs honestly. They don’t do it maliciously, they truly see that as the only approach that makes sense and they also have a prophet that agrees with that approach. That’s why arguing Scripture with an SDA just doesn’t work—they have a system that seems to work and they don’t understand why you don’t see the logic of it!

If you ask most former SDA’s what it takes to get an SDA to really listen, it will either be:
  1. The SDA is tired of the cognotive dissonance (the contradictions that crop up from the approach that they use) or
  2. The SDA is spiritually starving because there are questions they have that they can’t answer using the SDA approach to Scripture.
Without a spiritual crisis to get their attention, most SDA’s will not be bothered at all by any of your arguments.
number 2 interest me alot my friend. what would be an example of a question an Adventist would have, that the leadership would have trouble answering, that could lead to this condition? i can speak for myself from my baptist background, but is their any particular area, that alot of Adventist have problems with? i know with alot of converts to Catholocism the final hurdle is Mary. for me this was not an issue. the Catholic Church was shown to me by other means that border on the miraculous. i knew and accepted their doctrines before i ever entered a cathedral, they just confirmed what i had been shown. and some of the things that happened when i entered border on mystical. Peace to you and yours 🙂
 
JoaoMachado…

Fala Portugues? Continua a ler as repostas…Fique em Lisboa…

Kathleen
 
The SDAs have a re-written bible called The Clear Word Bible. Do a google search on that term and you’ll get multiple hits on it. It’s been rewritten to give credence to Ellen White’s beliefs in Jewish sabbath keeping on Saturday, the soul sleep heresy, the SDA 1844 investigative judgment, etc. :eek:
Wow, I go away for a little while and you guys have a good ole time bashing Adventists.

I want to put to rest the idea that the “Clear Word Bible” is and Adventist Bible. It certainly is not!

I believe it was written by an Adventist Pastor who exercised very poor judgement in the title of the book. I would go so far to say that it should no longer even be considered a Bible. The book is misleading and dangerous because it weaves Ellen White’s writings with the Bible text. The end result leaves it unclear as to where the Bible ends and Ellen White begins.

The General Conference of Seventh Day Adventists has spoken out against the book and it’s title. This is from the Adventist website:

*Do Adventists have their own edition of the Bible called the Clear Word?
While the Clear Word Bible is printed by an Adventist publishing house, it is not endorsed nor commissioned by the Seventh-day Adventist Church, but is the private enterprise of an individual.

The Adventist Church does not use the Clear Word edition, which includes passages from Ellen G. White’s writings, for its worship services and Bible studies around the world, but quotes from well known and well accepted Bible translations in the various languages. In the English language for example, the church uses the King James Version, the Revised Standard Version, the New American Bible, the New International Version, and others*
 
Benedict and Javl, the SDA’s use the same Bible as everyone else. What makes SDA’s so unique and hard to talk to is the way that they read the Bible. The way that they approach the Bible is unique among all of the Protestants. Let me put my old SDA hat on and take you on a tour of one belief that shows how this approach works. In brief, the SDA approach is coming to a text with a presupposition, and then going from that assumption to another proof text that looks like it fits and then repeating the process all over again.

So, lets assume you’ve been to a Revelation Seminar (the usual method of evangelizing is by way of a seminar on the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation–which is a perfect place to persuade someone that this method works.) Then you read how E.G. White said that the best diet is a vegetarian one, and you also read that unclean meats are not to be eaten. So, you ask your SDA friend to explain this to you. Here’s about how it would go:

In the beginning, God created man and gave man the diet he was designed for. You can read what that diet is in Gen. 1:29—every herb bearing seed, and every fruit of the trees. So, the original diet was vegetarian and that is what God designed us to eat.

Later, because of sin, God was forced to adapt that command. After the flood, in Gen. 9:3God says

Now be careful here, as God is only talking about all things that are clean. Even in Noahs time, the distinction between clean and unclean was present. Look at Gen. 7:2 in which God commands Noah to take seven of every clean beast; and two of every unclean beast. So, the command that every moving thing shall be meat for you can only apply to the clean beasts.

God made sure that the Isrealites understood this diet by carefully laying out in the law of Moses what to look for in a clean or unclean animal. That is Leviticus, chap. 11 which ends with verse 47 saying:

This diet is still observed and is part of a prophecy centuries later in Hosea 9:3 which prophesies that

Some Christians like to say that Jesus said that what you eat can’t defile you. The point to Matt. 15:17 where Christ says that But, if you look at v. 20 you can see that the issue is defilement not with food, but by whether you washed your hands or not. As Galatians 4:4 says
.
God would not go contrary to His own law and tell someone that you could eat pork or any other unclean food.

Other Christians will refer over to Acts. 10:11-16 where Peter has a vision of a sheet filled with all kinds of creatures, both clean and unclean. Three times Peter is told to kill and eat, three times Peter refused—just as he was supposed to if the dietary law was still in place. In fact, Acts 10:28 tells us exactly what the issue was:
.
Now if God had also shown Peter that he could eat anything—why didn’t Peter mention that fact?

And likewise, in 1 Cor. 10:25, when Paul says that you can go to the ‘shambles’ (another word for meat market) and** ‘eat, asking no question for conscience sake’**, you can’t just stop there. 1 Cor. 10:28 tells us what the real issue is

Paul is in no way advocating eating clean or unclean meat here. The issue is clean meats that were being offered to idols!

So, there is no reason for the Christian to be out there eating pork and shrimp and all the other unclean things. There is no difference between a Jewish stomach and that of a Gentile. Got it?

(So, Benedict and Javl, just pass those horrible, grilled pork chops down to me and I’ll take them outside and dispose of them, saving your eternal souls from hell 👍)
See—that’s how the SDA’s prove things to you. Presuppostion read into proof text after proof text…

It seems you know that study on diet very well 😛

I think it’s worth pointing out two things about this:

First, Adventists do not believe that diet is in any way tied to salvation. The Adventist health message simply advises us to avoid certain foods to live a healthier life. The advice of the Adventist Church regarding diet has been widely recognised as sound practice and people who live by that diet have been documented to live a longer more vigorous life.

Second, take a look in your Bible at the decline in life spans from the time of Adam to after the flood. I don’t have my Bible with me right now but from memory, Adam lived 900+ years as did most of his line through Noah. Shortly after the flood those life spans diminished to a bit over 100 years. I’ll look it up later for the texts.
 
This is what I was concerned about…the Adventists don’t accept that Bible…

How the Bible came to be…Who Christ is…where is the comparative…
 
yes, i had forgotten about michael the archangel thing. the jws stole this from the Adventist. heres the problem with that though. when Jesus was tempted in the desert, he rebuked satan to his face. the archangel michael on the other hand did not have this authority, as evidenced by the book of jude. he had to say the Lord rebuke you. also if they believe Jesus was the archangel, then they believe that Jesus was a created being. therefore, they cannot hold to the trinitarian doctrine. therefore they cannot be known as Christians. Peace 🙂
Adventists are strongly Trinitarian. Adventists and Catholics obviously have a difference in beliefs regarding the nature of Michael the archangel.

Please correct me if I’m wrong but Catholics believe that an archangel is a ‘class’ of angel and that there are more than one. The Bible only mentions one Archangel, Michael and we do not believe he is a created being. I understand that the book of Tobit identifies other Archangels but that isn’t in the Bible I read and I don’t recognise it as inspired scripture.

There are many places in the Bible that God identifies Himself as “the Angel of the Lord”.
In Genesis 16 with “the Angel of the Lord” speaks to Hagar and is later identified as “the God who sees me”
When God appeared to Moses in Exodus 3 as a burning bush it says “There the angel of the LORD appeared to him”. Later in vs. 6 he says, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.”

So it’s clear to me that the Bible refers to God as “the Angel of the Lord” in places.

In 1 Th 4:16 Paul says, “The Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first”. So the Archangel’s voice will cause the “dead in Christ to rise first”.
John 5:25 in Christ says, “The hour is coming when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God”. Identifying the “voice of the Son of God” as the voice that causes the dead to rise.

These two passages equate the voice of the Archangel with the voice of the Son of God.

That’s the short version of it. I’m sure I could dig up more scriptural references if needed. I’m interested in your thoughts on the topic though.
 
It seems you know that study on diet very well 😛

I think it’s worth pointing out two things about this:

First, Adventists do not believe that diet is in any way tied to salvation. The Adventist health message simply advises us to avoid certain foods to live a healthier life. The advice of the Adventist Church regarding diet has been widely recognised as sound practice and people who live by that diet have been documented to live a longer more vigorous life.

Second, take a look in your Bible at the decline in life spans from the time of Adam to after the flood. I don’t have my Bible with me right now but from memory, Adam lived 900+ years as did most of his line through Noah. Shortly after the flood those life spans diminished to a bit over 100 years. I’ll look it up later for the texts.
Ok, I was a bit off. At the time of Abram life spans had diminished to 100 - 200 years, but that is quite a difference from the 900+ years before the flood.
 
Ok, I was a bit off. At the time of Abram life spans had diminished to 100 - 200 years, but that is quite a difference from the 900+ years before the flood.
Those who were born before the flood had extraordinary lifespans, while those born after the flood had significantly shortened lifespans. It is speculated that it had something to do with the global atmospheric pressure (similar to a hyperbaric chamber on a global scale before the flood), along with the heavenly vapors being removed (which allows in more destructive kinds of sun-rays). It had nothing to do with the Adventist theory about the introduction of meat to the diet of post-deleuvian people.
 
The SDAs have a re-written bible called The Clear Word Bible. Do a google search on that term and you’ll get multiple hits on it. It’s been rewritten to give credence to Ellen White’s beliefs in Jewish sabbath keeping on Saturday, the soul sleep heresy, the SDA 1844 investigative judgment, etc. :eek:
CatholicLover;6961607:
Wow, I go away for a little while and you guys have a good ole time bashing Adventists.
Pointing out SDA heresies on a Catholic forum isn’t bashing. 👍

The Adventists keep coming back for more. 🤓

You will find the ritualism, history and theology of Catholicism to be quite sweet**;** it is as the incense of prayers of the Saints that are wafting up to the throne of God. It is thoroughly understood why the Adventists are spiritually drawn to it. 🙂
 
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