Information Request - Carmelite Seculars

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deekod1967

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Hi - can anyone tell me anything about Carmelite Seculars?

geocities.com/korvesem/carmel/whatis.html

I am thinking of giving them a call to investigate becoming an aspirant. Before I do - can anyone tell me about what life is like as a Carmelite Secular?

Many thanks,

DD
 
Are you looking into the Ancient Order or the Discalced Order? We have both in my area. I have been an aspirant with the Discalced for quite some time myself.

~donna
 
Hi Donna - thanks for the reply - it is the Discalced Order I was referring to (I didnt know there was an Ancient Order!). Have you found that being an aspirant is very demanding on your time? What regular commitments are you required to keep? Many thanks, DD.
 
Yeah, I don’t know much about the Ancient Order. When I first started looking at the Discalced, somehow the Ancient Order called me b/c a friend of mine was confused and gave them my info. In my area they help troubled teens and help at a Franciscan soup kitchen. Other than that, I don’t know much about them.

This is the OCDS Rule of Life:
geocities.com/korvesem/carmel/rule.html

Commitments are under “Dail Life” (Articles 4-9)
Have you found that being an aspirant is very demanding on your time?
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No, not really. In fact, it helps make my time more productive and helps me life out the “Theresian charism”.

Daily Mass is encouraged. The Liturgy of the Hours may be said, but only the Morning and EveningPrayer are absolutely neccessary and Night Prayer if possible (from “Christian Prayer”). And a 1/2 hour of contemplative prayer is very important. Regular confession, devotion to Our Lady, wearing the Brown Scapular of Carmel (or medal if unable to wear the scapular), praying for vocations, and attending the monthly Fraternity meetings.

But do read the Rule. There is much more to it than that. It is living out the Theresian charism that you are essentially doing.

What draws you to Carmel, if you don’t mind me asking?

~donna
 
Also, if you are married, they will want you to discuss your interest in Carmel with your spouse. They will discourage you from joining if it will be a cause for conflict in your marriage.

I forgot to include that you are encouraged to make a yearly retreat.

Actually, though I don’t find the daily demands at all taxing, I have never been able to finish the aspirants program b/c it is not possible for me to attend the Fraternity meetings any longer (which are necessary for formation). But I’m a Discalced Carmelite at heart, and informally, an aspirant. I pray someday I will make the meetings and be able to finish my formation.

I suggest calling and asking if you can be an observer so you can get a feel for what it is like; talk to people, etc. You can observe as long as you need to. If you don’t have a breviary, you might want to get “Christian Prayer” and try the Morning and Evening Prayer. Understanding how to say it can be tricky, but it’s not difficult. You can follow along with EWTN.com - (click on bottom left and find the day and hour you want). They will probably suggest you read “Welcome to Carmel”. Then if you decide it’s something you want to pursue, you can enter the Aspirant program 😃
 
What life is like as a Lay Carmelite (OCDS) - exactly like my prayer-filled life was before, except that such life is now incorporated into a holy Order with a rule of life formally approved by the Church. And belonging to a Community of wonderful people who “speak the same spiritual language”. Carmel Rocks!
 
<<Yeah, I don’t know much about the Ancient Order. When I first started looking at the Discalced, somehow the Ancient Order called me b/c a friend of mine was confused and gave them my info. In my area they help troubled teens and help at a Franciscan soup kitchen. Other than that, I don’t know much about them.>>

The Ancient Order is the O. Carm., and we have the same spirituality pursuits that the O.C.D.S. has. We study the writings of St. John of the Cross, St. Teresa of Avila, St. Therese the Little Flower, and other Carmelite saints. We pray the Liturgy of the Hours Morning, Evening, and Night Prayer, attend Mass daily if possible, and spend 1/2 hour in quiet prayer, and have monthly meetings. (Their help of troubled teens and serving at a soup kitchen in your area is probably a ministry they chose to take part in.) The Blessed Mother and Elijah are our models also.
 
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JoyToBeCatholic:
Actually, though I don’t find the daily demands at all taxing
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Hi DD 🙂

There’s lot’s of good info in this thread . . . hopefully you’ve found it helpful. A couple of things I might add:
  1. Carmel is a “call” . . . a way of life. It is much, much more than a prayer or study group . . . Carmel is who we are. You probably already know this, though . . . I say this mostly for other readers following along.
I think most Seculars would probably agree totally with what JoyToBeCatholic says . . . the “time demands” you ask about are a joy rather than a burden.
  1. Discernment is an ongoing process . . . five years I believe for OCDS before final promises. There’s plenty of time to see if things are right for you.
  2. I can’t stress enough the importance of community in all of this. Many people might feel drawn to Carmelite spirituality but have no interest in community. Maybe the best way to get started would be to contact the formation director for your community and go as a visitor.
I’m very glad to learn your interest in Carmel 🙂 . . . please keep us posted 👍

Dave.
 
I agree - the Call to Community is the distinguishing criterion between having a vocation to Carmelite spirituality, and having a vocation to Carmel.
 
Thanks everyone for their help, all your comments are very important to me.

I would very much like to be part of a community, ideally praying LOTH together daily. But the nearest centre is two hours drive away from my home, and 2.5 hrs drive from my place of work - I would only manage to visit the community once a month or so at most due to family/work commitments. As a “next best” scenario I was hoping that I could be an “isolate” member joining primarily in the prayers of the Order, and visiting the community as much as I can manage.

Bearing the above in mind, I would appreciate your thoughts on whether I am would be considered to be a suitable candidate to be an aspirant. What does the formation of an aspirant entail?

I will call the Order in the next week or so, but I need to discuss all this with my wife first - hence this thread is serving as a vital information gathering exercise!. I will of course keep you all posted.

Many thanks again,

DD
 
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JoyToBeCatholic:
What draws you to Carmel, if you don’t mind me asking?

~donna
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Hi Donna,

I was drawn to a monastic calling before meeting my wife in Lourdes, I have had a hankering to investigate lay orders ever since. Recently my job has become very stressful and I’ve let go of God at work - this has prompted a resurgence of my need to look into lay orders seriously to help me live my life with God 24/7. I am also considering Opus Dei but it doesnt have that “monastic element” (whatever that is!) that I am looking for. I have been saying the LOTH off and on (sometimes more off than on) for over 5 years, having made some internet research and - thanks to the posts on CAF - all things considered Carmel would seem to be the way for me just now. However, I will need to read the rule and discuss the implications with my wife before “taking the plunge” so to speak.

Many thanks for your interest, you and everyones comments are very much appreciated.

Watch this space!.

DD
 
If one cannot attend Community, there is little (or no) chance of being admitted to the Order. Wish it were otherwise. But, we are a Community Order.

Speaking from weary experience, I assure all that attendance at Community is well worth any long drive.
 
. . . also, the meetings are monthly. It sounds like you might be thinking they’re weekly.

As Timothy said, the drive is worth it for those called to Carmel. I’m in the St. Louis community and we have members who come from Quincy IL and Columbia MO . . . each roughly 3 hours away.

Hope this helps some . . .
Dave.
 
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tjmiller:
If one cannot attend Community, there is little (or no) chance of being admitted to the Order. Wish it were otherwise. But, we are a Community Order.

Speaking from weary experience, I assure all that attendance at Community is well worth any long drive.
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Thanks TJ - as you can imagine I am dissapointed to hear you say theres not much chance of me joining without regular attendance with the community. I assumed this would be OK after reading the following link…

geocities.com/korvesem/carmel/whatis.htmlCarmelite Seculars belong to local communities. Where such communities exist they gather once a month for fellowship, prayer, and the study of Carmelite spirituality. When there is no community nearby, a Carmelite Secular may be considered an isolate member but is always, still, associated with a community (Constitutions, Art. 56)

Looks like its back to the drawing board - does anyone know of any lay orders where regular attendance at community is not a primary focus? Where members can pray separately due to remoteness - but still in communion with the rest of the order? Or am I “barking up the wrong tree” here altogether?

Thanks again,

DD
 
You can always try to start up your own new OCDS Community, where you live.

I did this…

If you belong in Our Lady’s Order, you will surely get there!
 
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deekod1967:
I would only manage to visit the community once a month or so at most due to family/work commitments.
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I think we posted at the same so maybe you missed mine. The meetings are monthly. Maybe there’s hope yet? 🙂

Dave
 
I would really appreciate your advice as well, I spoke to the Carmelite sister in Indonesia and they have this regulations that a person has to be under 35 to be able to enter. Is that rule the same to all even in other countries? Do some one from one country must enter to the carmelite in that country or can some one joint in another country? I found many sisters from Malaysia were studying in Indonesian Carmelites during my visit. I appreciate your advice Thank you so very much.
 
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tjmiller:
You can always try to start up your own new OCDS Community, where you live. I did this…
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tj, how did you do that? Is there a procedure? What did you do, and how did you go about it?
 
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Agustina:
I would really appreciate your advice as well, I spoke to the Carmelite sister in Indonesia and they have this regulations that a person has to be under 35 to be able to enter. Is that rule the same to all even in other countries? Do some one from one country must enter to the carmelite in that country or can some one joint in another country? I found many sisters from Malaysia were studying in Indonesian Carmelites during my visit. I appreciate your advice Thank you so very much.
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This may be true for the Carmelites that belong to the Second Order, (nuns).

The Lay Carmelites (those who live in the world but follow Carmelite spirituality) that I belong to have candidates that have come in who are in their seventies. Our community of 33 range in age from 21 to 82.
 
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