Information Request - Carmelite Seculars

[tjmiller]

The process may have changed since my wife and I began an OCDS Group, but here is what we did 10 years ago: For many years we traveled a 4 hour monthly round-trip to attend the closest OCDS Community. During this time, many fellow Catholics at home got interested in what we were doing, but were unwilling or unable to make that journey.

But by the time we made our First Promises, there was already a group of a dozen like-minded friends in place, who wished to try starting a new group with us. We contacted the OCDS Provincial Delegate, who authorized us to inaugurate an informal study group, which we called the “Contemplative Study Group”. We met monthly at our diocesan retreat center for Benediction and then for discussion over a biography of St. Teresa of Avila.

I sent monthly reports on the group’s activities to the Delegate, who also paid us a few visits. After two years of such “probationary” status, he authorized me to approach the local bishop to ask for approval for a formal new OCDS Group! The rest is history.

The policies on doing something like this may vary according to the Province. It took a lot of patient effort, but was well worth it!

 

[buzzcut]

tjmiller:

It took a lot of patient effort, but was well worth it!

Wow! What a great story of perseverance and dedication. Inspiring reading and very practical instruction for those of us who live in outlying areas.

 

[JoyToBeCatholic]

deekod1967:

Thanks TJ - as you can imagine I am dissapointed to hear you say theres not much chance of me joining without regular attendance with the community. I assumed this would be OK after reading the following link…

geocities.com/korvesem/carmel/whatis.htmlCarmelite Seculars belong to local communities. Where such communities exist they gather once a month for fellowship, prayer, and the study of Carmelite spirituality. When there is no community nearby, a Carmelite Secular may be considered an isolate member but is always, still, associated with a community (Constitutions, Art. 56)

Hi again,

I inquired about this also, b/c of my own family commitments and was told that I would have had to complete all of my formation before being considered an isolate member. We had a few isolate members that were homebound, but had been a part of the community for quite some time prior.

I sypathize with you. I have wanted so much to be a part of my Carmelite community, but over an hour drive and meetings from 12-4 on a Sunday while my family was at home - well, I just couldn’t commit yet. Someday… (and that is why all of the members are 50 or older!)

Thanks for sharing your interest. I asked b/c I’ve heard many stories from my Fraternity about how Carmel finds members (or rather, God does )

My story: I was at the library one day looking for a book on St. Rita of Cascia and the only name I could recall was Therese of Lisieux. I got a ton of books on her but didn’t understand why one had a picture of a nun on it (Rita was not a nun). Well I read and fell in love with “The Little Way” and was pained to believe that I may have missed a religious vocation to Carmel. A few months later, as I walked into an adoration chapel I used to go to daily, I heard a whisper in my ear “look at the papers on the left”…(no one there) - People use to leave prayer cards and things they got from the mail there for anyone interested. I always got my share in the mail, though, and was never interested in investigating the pile. But this time there was a pamphlet on top of the pile with the Carmel symbol (I didn’t even know what it was). I started reading about the secular order and was still confused b/c I didnt’ know what a secular order was, and didn’t know laypeople could be a part of an order. Finally I called the phone# on it and had it all explained to me… Boy was I ecstatic! And the rest is history!..

Well, God bless you on your search! I hope you find what you’re looking for, but if by chance you don’t find an order you can be an isolate member of, you can always join a confraternity or something. Or just live out the Rule of the order you wish to join. Consecrate yourself, etc.

Here is one Confraternity I’ve contemplated: www.penitents.org
(can’t seem to get it to come up right now though. They must be having trouble.)

Godspeed!
~donna

 

[deekod1967]

Thanks Donna - I have had a quick look at the penitents website - and I am very interested to find out more - and did you notice what my signature says - is this just pure coincidence?

I also wouldnt like to leave my family once a month as I feel I have precious enough time with them working 6 days a week, so this could be just the ticket for me - many thanks!

I will read up a lot more on the penitents and keep you all posted - by the way - are there any penitant members out there who would like to share their experiences with Donna and I?

DD

 

[JoyToBeCatholic]

Thanks Donna - I have had a quick look at the penitents website - and I am very interested to find out more - and did you notice what my signature says - is this just pure coincidence?

HA! I hadn’t realized! No such thing as a coincidence .

Know something else odd about it? I don’t remember how I happened upon the website, but when I found it I read through only to discover that one of the priests, Fr. Martin Mary, is the priest I’ve been asking to be my spiritual director! When I first started reading the site, I had no idea where the confraternity originated from or anything. But then to see the town… and then the priests name…even his picture… Wow! :bounce: It was really something!

I mentioned it b/c I had printed up the Rule last year and ran across it the other day and started to re-read it. Maybe I should give it more consideration too .

~donna

 

[deekod1967]

As you quite rightly say - no such thing as coincidence!

I pray Fr. Martin will be your spiritual director soon - and I have a feeling he will be! I just love it when the Holy Spirit does things like this!

My interest in lay orders was re-invigorated when I realised I had forgotten God at work recently. My only reminder of God was on my wall, next to my desk, a crucifix EXACTLY like this one… (click it for the link)…

penitents.org/SanDam2.GIF

The same crucifix the Penitents use for a symobol of their confraternity!

The Penitents Confraternity is starting to “feel right” for me already! Thank you so much for letting me know about it!

DD

 

[deekod1967]

The other aspect is that I have developed a strong devotion to Our Lady of Fatima, her message was basically to be penitant for the sake of other sinners, this seems to be the heart of the Penitents message also.

Once again, thanks!

 

[JoyToBeCatholic]

You’re very welcome!

I’ve been thinking about the Fatima message a lot lately. The Fatima apparation has lifted me up from a lot of faith crisis.

The crucifix? Wow…Sign, signs! Sometimes God whispers, and sometimes he YELLS!

Godspeed!
~donna

 

[deekod1967]

Hi Donna - I’ve started a thread asking Penitents for further info, please see link for more info…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1287822#post1287822

I’ve read the rule and some of it looks demanding, but appealing! I’ll need to convince my wife about the tithing part though!

Thanks again!

DD

 

[deekod1967]

Donna,

I believe the fatima message is core to the current ploitical climate, as a penitant I would be offering up all of my penances for the conversion of sinners.
Sorry to be nosey - but how did Our Lady of Fatima help your crisis of Faith?

God bless,

DD

 

[JoyToBeCatholic]

Yeah, I remember the tithing part - eeek.

Fatima. Well, I remember some years ago when I had my first big faith crisis since my “reversion” telling my confessor about the doubts that were plaguing me, and he reminded me “what about Fatima? What about Eucharistic miracles?”. (Just yesterday I was reading about Eucharistic miracles. There have been 2 in my state the past 10 years or so). Anyway, just the fact that so much was foretold in those apparitions: World War 2 and the rise of communism… (shiver)

 

[deekod1967]

Absolutely - people tend to forget about things like that, for me it was the reports of the “Miracle of the Sun”, and then reading “Fatima, in Lucia’s own words” that really made me think about the message.

I’ll need to start planning how to partially offset the tithe with additional income, the rule is definitely not easy, but then I suppose the more satisfying things in life rarely are!

God bless,

DD

 

[JoyToBeCatholic]

deekod1967:

for me it was the reports of the “Miracle of the Sun”,

:yup:

the rule is definitely not easy, but then I suppose the more satisfying things in life rarely are!

All for God…it wouldn’t be penance if it were easy , but it can be joyfilled!

DD, I will pray for your discernment of the Confraternity. I saw the thread you have on the Penitents. I pray you’ll find a director also. I don’t know how it is in Scotland, but spiritual directors are a rare commodity here!

May His Spirit guide you!
~donna

 

[tjmiller]

2003 OCDS Constitutions:

#49. For the establishment of a new community it is necessary to present to the General Secretary of the Secular Order the following documents:
a) a list of the current members: at least 10 members are required to form a community, two of whom must have made definitive promises;
b) a letter from the Provincial Delegate requesting the establishment of the community;
c) the permission of the Ordinary of the Diocese in writing;
d) the title of the community;
e) the place of the community meeting.

#58. The Provincial statutes are to determine the following:
…b) the acceptance and formation of those new members who do not live near an established community; in every case these new candidates must be identified with and formed by an established community…l

 

[BarbaraTherese]

deekod1967:

Thanks TJ - as you can imagine I am dissapointed to hear you say theres not much chance of me joining without regular attendance with the community. I assumed this would be OK after reading the following link…

geocities.com/korvesem/carmel/whatis.htmlCarmelite Seculars belong to local communities. Where such communities exist they gather once a month for fellowship, prayer, and the study of Carmelite spirituality. When there is no community nearby, a Carmelite Secular may be considered an isolate member but is always, still, associated with a community (Constitutions, Art. 56)

Looks like its back to the drawing board - does anyone know of any lay orders where regular attendance at community is not a primary focus? Where members can pray separately due to remoteness - but still in communion with the rest of the order? Or am I “barking up the wrong tree” here altogether?

Thanks again,

DD

Hi DD…the ‘distant member or extended member’ branch of Carmel is still in existence and is incorporated into the Constitution and I think this happend in 2004 or therabouts at least here in Australia. I believe that Carmel is having ‘teething problems’ with this extended membership but it still exists. If you contact a Carmelite Community of Seculars, they should be able to assist you. You could do this online if you wish and simply make enquiries re extended membership.
I am currently making enquiries about “The Leaven” who are concentrated in the UK and are a secular division of O.Carm or the Ancient rule of Carmel bound by evangelical vows. I would be indeed an isolated member or extended member as I live in Australia and there are no members here. The Leaven have indicated that membership is a potential and are sending me literature.
So dont give up until you contact Carmel itself.

Barb