Inherently Good

[valentino]

Man is inherintly good because He never created anything but good.

 

[DaveBj]

Man is inherintly good because He never created anything but good.

Read the previous post.

 

[ActuallyAquinas]

Read the previous post.

You mean that very much protestant “previous post?”

I beg not to, again. Do you think that God created something that was not inherently good? If so, it seems to me that you’re witnessing that God creating something evil.

Aquinas says (ST I-II. Q85. A1): “The good of human nature is threefold…[and] the first-mentioned good of nature is neither destroyed nor diminished by sin.”

And, Aquinas points to Augustine when Augustine says (Enchiridion xiv) that “evil does not exist except in some good.”

Thus, man’s nature is inherently good.

 

[valentino]

Read the previous post.

Man is damaged goods.We inherit OS therefore we have a sinful nature.But Adam was created good.yes,no man is good.No one seeks after God.We all went astray.So man isn’t inherently good.I agree with you.Thanks for the post.You’re right.man is not mindful of God,therefore he naturallly does the wrong thing.until He accepts Christ and seeks to serve Him its impossible to do good.

 

[DaveBj]

You mean that very much protestant “previous post?”

I beg not to, again. Do you think that God created something that was not inherently good? If so, it seems to me that you’re witnessing that God creating something evil.

Aquinas says (ST I-II. Q85. A1): “The good of human nature is threefold…[and] the first-mentioned good of nature is neither destroyed nor diminished by sin.”

And, Aquinas points to Augustine when Augustine says (Enchiridion xiv) that “evil does not exist except in some good.”

Thus, man’s nature is inherently good.

The post in question (#20) was neither “Protestant” nor “Catholic.” Rogare brought nothing to the table but quotations from Sacred Scripture.

Man is damaged goods.We inherit OS therefore we have a sinful nature.But Adam was created good.yes,no man is good.No one seeks after God.We all went astray.So man isn’t inherently good.I agree with you.Thanks for the post.You’re right.man is not mindful of God,therefore he naturallly does the wrong thing.until He accepts Christ and seeks to serve Him its impossible to do good.

We are not talking about Creation. We as individuals are not created. We are conceived and born, and that is what we are talking about – how we are born, not how humanity was created.

Anyone who denies that we are born with original sin is denying the teachings of the Catholic Church. Anyone who denies that even after the removal of original sin through baptism, we are still carriers of concupiscence, is denying the teachings of the Catholic Church. Anyone who can believe that someone born with original sin (an evil) and subject to concupiscence (another evil) all his life can also be inherently good – well, I have to believe that somewhere there is disconnect with reality.

 

[ActuallyAquinas]

Anyone who denies that we are born with original sin is denying the teachings of the Catholic Church.

I never said that we were not born with original sin, I asked if we are inherently good.

As in was Adam good? Because he is our father, do we share in his goodness? Or did God make us evil and from another substance then?

 

[DaveBj]

I never said that we were not born with original sin, I asked if we are inherently good.

As in was Adam good? Because he is our father, do we share in his goodness? Or did God make us evil and from another substance then?

Those are not either/or questions; they are neither/nor. God made Adam good, and He did not make us from another substance. But as I pointed out above, God didn’t “make” us at all; rather, we were conceived and born in a physical universe that God designed. And, as descendants of fallen \ Adam, we share in his fallen-ness, not in the goodness in which he was created. There is no way that something fallen can be considered inherently good. You need to check out Psalm 51:5 and I Cor 15:22a, just for starters.

 

[ActuallyAquinas]

There is no way that something fallen can be considered inherently good.

There you are incorrect.

We are inherently good AND we are also fallen. And, although we are marred by sin, we still are made in the image of God. And, you’re wrong, God does create us either directly or indirectly, but he is the Creator.

Check Jimmy for your answer: youtube.com/watch?v=tVJufClMS64&feature=youtu.be

 

[DaveBj]

There you are incorrect.

We are inherently good AND we are also fallen. And, although we are marred by sin, we still are made in the image of God. And, you’re wrong, God does create us either directly or indirectly, but he is the Creator.

Check Jimmy for your answer: youtube.com/watch?v=tVJufClMS64&feature=youtu.be

Okay, I will speak only for myself. I was born into a very ordinary household (i.e., no abusive parents or relatives, no exotic chemicals coursing through their bloodstreams as they were raising me, etc.), and I have fairly good memories of what I did and experienced back to a very young age. I will testify before anyone who cares to listen that I was not born “inherently good.” My middle initial “M.” stood for “mischief” as much as it did for my actual middle name.

When I started reading the Bible, I discovered why: “Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child…”, and other statements that have also been already quoted. I was not born totally depraved, as the Calvinists claim, but I was not born inherently good.

You can believe what you want about yourself. At the end of the day, that particular belief isn’t going to affect the final judgment one way or the other, except that the Boss might tell one or the other of us, “See how wrong you were about that?”

 

[valentino]

I say individuals are inherently good.However from the moment they are born mankind is playing on them.They are being influenced by a mother’s attitude,by how quickly they are fed and changed,by the overall calmnest or chaoitic enviroment which they are living in,ect.If a child were to be able to live in most ideal situation he would undoubtaly be a very loving,respect,considerate human being.However that doesn’t mean as he ages that he would be saved .Because one has to believe that salvation only comes in believing in Jesus as savior.By inherently good I mean if he werre to have Jesus as his father and Mary as his mother.He would make mistakes but would never become as slave to sin.All children will be mischievious but that not bad no more than young kittens playing(fighting,roughhousing )with their brother kittens.Foolishness is not sin.

 

[valentino]

Those are not either/or questions; they are neither/nor. God made Adam good, and He did not make us from another substance. But as I pointed out above, God didn’t “make” us at all; rather, we were conceived and born in a physical universe that God designed. And, as descendants of fallen \ Adam, we share in his fallen-ness, not in the goodness in which he was created. There is no way that something fallen can be considered inherently good. You need to check out Psalm 51:5 and I Cor 15:22a, just for starters.

Yes, ihe Nt can be fallen and be inherently good.EX.A child is perfect.but a stronger force than he comes along.He gives into that stronger force and he sins.Now he is no longer good.Adam and Eve are good examples just like all of us.Even though through baptism we are no longer in OS God in us is not so powerful that we can’t be tempted to do wrong.Satan’s power over man is stronger than our belief in God.He’s also very wise and extremely cunning.He knows our nature better than we do.He knows exactly how to make us fall.

 

[valentino]

The post in question (#20) was neither “Protestant” nor “Catholic.” Rogare brought nothing to the table but quotations from Sacred Scripture.

We are not talking about Creation. We as individuals are not created. We are conceived and born, and that is what we are talking about – how we are born, not how humanity was created.

Anyone who denies that we are born with original sin is denying the teachings of the Catholic Church. Anyone who denies that even after the removal of original sin through baptism, we are still carriers of concupiscence, is denying the teachings of the Catholic Church. Anyone who can believe that someone born with original sin (an evil) and subject to concupiscence (another evil) all his life can also be inherently good – well, I have to believe that somewhere there is disconnect with reality.

Concupitence is the tendency toward sin.We are not perfect in the sense that we can’t make mistakes.we can tease our sibling like a kitten teases another kitten.We can raid the cookie jar for a good taste but that is not sin.Our human natures are no perfect like God is perfect.Read my post just above or the one before that.