Initiating the Cause for Abp. Elias Zoghby

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Dear brother sidbrown,
sidbrown said:
I don’t see the Catholic Church going along with the demands of those in the Orthodox Church.
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It’s not about giving in to demands. It’s all about strengthening our family ties through understanding.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
mardukm said:
Dear brother sidbrown,

It’s not about giving in to demands. It’s all about strengthening our family ties through understanding.

Blessings,
Marduk
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It does not look that way to me. The union will not come by Catholics closing their eyes to what Orthodox perceive as serious differences dividing the two Churches.
 
sidbrown said:
It does not look that way to me. The union will not come by Catholics closing their eyes to what Orthodox perceive as serious differences dividing the two Churches.
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Some people think that the trickle will come before the storm – that the union will be a grassroots movement – from the bottom up, not from the top down.

Blessings
 
mardukm said:
Some people think that the trickle will come before the storm – that the union will be a grassroots movement – from the bottom up, not from the top down.

Blessings
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It would be nice, but considering the fistfights which have broken out between Catholic priests and Orthodox priests at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre over minor issues such as whether a door should be closed during a procession, it does not look to me like it is coming anytime soon. Or take a look at the big deal that the Orthodox make out of Purgatory. According to their catechisms and the declarations at their Councils, the Orthodox teaching is virtually indistinguishable from the official Catholic teaching on Purgatory and yet they make a mountain out of not even a molehill.
There was an article a while back in the Catholic newspaper Our Sunday Visitor about an incident which arose when a few Orthodox monks cleaned up a sidewalk area at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. They had done this voluntarily and in good faith. But after it was all done, the Catholics said that the Orthodox had to undo all their work and place it back into its unkempt state as it was before, since the Orthodox did not get the permission of the Catholics before they had done the work. Where is the Christian charity and understanding at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre where Our Divine Lord was crucified and buried?
 
Dear brother sidbrown,
sidbrown said:
It would be nice, but considering the fistfights which have broken out between Catholic priests and Orthodox priests at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre over minor issues such as whether a door should be closed during a procession, it does not look to me like it is coming anytime soon. Or take a look at the big deal that the Orthodox make out of Purgatory. According to their catechisms and the declarations at their Councils, the Orthodox teaching is virtually indistinguishable from the official Catholic teaching on Purgatory and yet they make a mountain out of not even a molehill.
There was an article a while back in the Catholic newspaper Our Sunday Visitor about an incident which arose when a few Orthodox monks cleaned up a sidewalk area at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. They had done this voluntarily and in good faith. But after it was all done, the Catholics said that the Orthodox had to undo all their work and place it back into its unkempt state as it was before, since the Orthodox did not get the permission of the Catholics before they had done the work. Where is the Christian charity and understanding at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre where Our Divine Lord was crucified and buried?
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Then should we give in to despair and have an “eye for an eye” mentality? Or should we rather pursue the path of hope towards unity? St. Paul exhorts us, and our Lord commands us. Let’s be diligent in promoting understanding, despite the difficulties. Our Lord suffered so much more than the wounds to our pride when we find people disagree with us.

Pease and Blessings, brother.
 
mardukm said:
Dear brother sidbrown,

Then should we give in to despair and have an “eye for an eye” mentality? Or should we rather pursue the path of hope towards unity? St. Paul exhorts us, and our Lord commands us. Let’s be diligent in promoting understanding, despite the difficulties. Our Lord suffered so much more than the wounds to our pride when we find people disagree with us.

Pease and Blessings, brother.
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It would be nice to have a reunion, but I was merely observing the reality of the situation as it appears to exist today, unfortunately.
I mean how does one explain the uncharitable pettiness at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, this is where Our Divine Lord was crucified and buried?
Uncharitable pettiness is partly to blame for keeping the two Churches apart in my opinion.
 
sidbrown said:
It would be nice to have a reunion, but I was merely observing the reality of the situation as it appears to exist today, unfortunately.
I mean how does one explain the uncharitable pettiness at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, this is where Our Divine Lord was crucified and buried?
Uncharitable pettiness is partly to blame for keeping the two Churches apart in my opinion.
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I certainly agree. But, given all that, should we give in to cynicism about humanity, or rather pray with hope towards unity?

Blessings
 
Returning to the original question, I would be strongly opposed to initiating the cause for Abp. Elias Zoghby (within the Catholic Church) on the basis that the subtle implications of the Zoghby Initiative are that Rome has been in error for the last millenium, and that in believing all that Eastern Orthodoxy teaches, one must reject Catholic teaching on divorce, contraception, the Immaculate Conception etc.
 
One can be Orthodox and believe the Catholic position on all those issues.
 
Seamus_L said:
Returning to the original question, I would be strongly opposed to initiating the cause for Abp. Elias Zoghby (within the Catholic Church) on the basis that the subtle implications of the Zoghby Initiative are that Rome has been in error for the last millenium, and that in believing all that Eastern Orthodoxy teaches, one must reject Catholic teaching on divorce, contraception, the Immaculate Conception etc.
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Is it not true that Cardinal Ratzinger rejected the Zoghby initiative?
 
sidbrown said:
Is it not true that Cardinal Ratzinger rejected the Zoghby initiative?
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So did the Orthodox. The Zoghby Initiative is essentially a dead letter and a non-starter for reunion, unfortunately.

Peace and God bless!
 
Ghosty said:
So did the Orthodox. The Zoghby Initiative is essentially a dead letter and a non-starter for reunion, unfortunately.

Peace and God bless!
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Why do the Catholic authorities reject the Zoghby initiative?
 
twf said:
Basil: are you suggesting that sacramental marriages can be dissolved in the East but not among Latins? This is one point of potential disagreement that goes beyond mere discipline. On this particular point, the Roman Pontiff has bound the Church universal in his ministry of confirming the brethren. It has nothing to do with Latin theology…it’s just a matter of truth. Either a sacramental marriage can be dissolved or it can’t. I don’t see how it could be otherwise.
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All of you should read text of Zoghby’s writing on this issue, before slandering him. :mad:

wanweihsien.wordpress.com/2008/06/14/the-eastern-churches-and-the-indissolubility-of-marriage-part-1-of-2/
 
sidbrown said:
I for one was not slandering him. I ws just saying that the Roman Catholic Church, according to a statement issued by Cardinal Ratzinger, does not accept the Zoghby initiative. Please correct me if this is wrong.
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The net result is that Western Catholic annullment = Eastern Orthodox divorce. No matter how the facts are spun, this is true…in the final analysis.
 
sidbrown said:
I for one was not slandering him. I ws just saying that the Roman Catholic Church, according to a statement issued by Cardinal Ratzinger, does not accept the Zoghby initiative. Please correct me if this is wrong.
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So the question I have is should one be denied sainthood because an initiative they put forward to heal the Church was denied?
 
ByzCath said:
So the question I have is should one be denied sainthood because an initiative they put forward to heal the Church was denied?
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No! Their life and dedication to Christ and the unity of His Church should be paramount.
 
eichenb2 said:
The net result is that Western Catholic annullment = Eastern Orthodox divorce. No matter how the facts are spun, this is true…in the final analysis.
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There are some differences though. For one thing, in the Eastern Orthodox Church it is a sin to get a divorce and there is a limit to how many you can have.
 
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