Inquisition from Jewish stand point

[Odell]

I know very little about the inqustion I would like to start a thred on hwat the Jews think of it and from the Catholic stand point on it as well.

 

[1ke]

I know very little about the inqustion I would like to start a thred on hwat the Jews think of it and from the Catholic stand point on it as well.

Why are you asking about what Jews think of the inquisition?

The inquisitions (it should be plural as there was not not one inquisition) had authority over Christians, not Jews.

I suggest you read some books on the matter, Characters of the Inquisition by Thomas Walsh for example, and some books on Isabella of Spain-- Warren Carroll has an excellent book.

 

[Odell]

I want to hear from both sides I dont know much on the subject but have a Jewish aunt who is asking me about the subject so I would like to hear from both sides on this tread instead of just the plain old Catholic Protestant debate on the matter.

 

[Teflon93]

I want to hear from both sides I dont know much on the subject but have a Jewish aunt who is asking me about the subject so I would like to hear from both sides on this tread instead of just the plain old Catholic Protestant debate on the matter.

Actually, I would suggest you start by looking at Luther’s views of the Jews. The Reformers’ track record in this regard was absolutely awful. There is likely more grist for discussion there.

 

[Kaninchen]

I want to hear from both sides I dont know much on the subject but have a Jewish aunt who is asking me about the subject so I would like to hear from both sides on this tread instead of just the plain old Catholic Protestant debate on the matter.

I would suggest you have a look at the following links:

aish.com/literacy/jewishhistory/Crash_Course_in_Jewish_History_Part_48_-_The_Inquisition.asp

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Inquisition.html

jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=148&letter=I#401

 

[Calvinator]

Actually, I would suggest you start by looking at Luther’s views of the Jews. The Reformers’ track record in this regard was absolutely awful. There is likely more grist for discussion there.

Maybe Chrysostom would be a better starting place?

I’ve never understood the “your side is worse than my side” arguments.

 

[Teflon93]

Maybe Chrysostom would be a better starting place?

I’ve never understood the “your side is worse than my side” arguments.

Have you read Luther’s proposed method of dealing with the Jews?

We’re not talking ecumenism here. Anyone reading what Luther said can judge for themselves why he was quoted favorably by Nazis.

 

[Calvinator]

Have you read Luther’s proposed method of dealing with the Jews?

We’re not talking ecumenism here. Anyone reading what Luther said can judge for themselves why he was quoted favorably by Nazis.

I realize you are still in your honeymoon period with your new church but what of Chrysostom?

Go and read Jewish opinion on the crusades, the inquisition and various other events where catholics have shown their love to their Jewish brothers.

I’m not defending Luther where he was obviously wrong but you seem to ignore the issues your church has had with the Jews over the last two millenia.

 

[mercygate]

The only Jews to come under the Inquisition were those who converted to Christianity on the outside but not on the inside. This was mostly in the Spanish Inquisition, which had been initiated to identify Muslims who had “converted” for the purpose of subverting the faith.

Queen Isabella’s personal confessor was a “coverso” – a Jewish convert. He was a very saintly man, and highly respected in the Church.

 

[Calvinator]

By the way, didn’t the Nazi’s also use Chrysostom?

 

[Teflon93]

By the way, didn’t the Nazi’s also use Chrysostom?

I don’t know. Do you have a reference?

 

[Teflon93]

I realize you are still in your honeymoon period with your new church but what of Chrysostom?

Go and read Jewish opinion on the crusades, the inquisition and various other events where catholics have shown their love to their Jewish brothers.

I’m not defending Luther where he was obviously wrong but you seem to ignore the issues your church has had with the Jews over the last two millenia.

I ignore nothing of the sort. You certainly do seem to be nervous about anybody reading Luther’s diatribe against the Jews, however. Might it be because the Great Reformer’s track record is horrible?

If you want me to read something about Jewish opinion on Catholic abuses, it certainly would help to post links.

Unless of course you merely seek to deflect from the excesses of your own faith.

Given that the Supreme Pontiff has seen fit to apologize for the Church’s past treatment of the Jews, I don’t see how you could presume any Catholic to be somehow ignorant of it.

 

[mercygate]

Given that the Supreme Pontiff has seen fit to apologize for the Church’s past treatment of the Jews, I don’t see how you could presume any Catholic to be somehow ignorant of it.

The Pontiff apologized for *Catholics’ *treatment of the Jews. The difference is not insignificant.

 

[Teflon93]

The Pontiff apologized for *Catholics’ *treatment of the Jews. The difference is not insignificant.

You are correct.

 

[Teflon93]

This may be why Calvinator’s a bit nervous on this subject:

Accordingly, it must and dare not be considered a trifling matter but a most serious one to seek counsel against this and to save our souls from the Jews, that is, from the devil and from eternal death. My advice, as I said earlier, is:

First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hellfire…

Second, that all their books-- their prayer books, their Talmudic writings, also the entire Bible-- be taken from them, not leaving them one leaf, and that these be preserved for those who may be converted…

Third, that they be forbidden on pain of death to praise God, to give thanks, to pray, and to teach publicly among us and in our country…

Fourth, that they be forbidden to utter the name of God within our hearing. For we cannot with a good conscience listen to this or tolerate it…

-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)

This was a major inspiration for Kristallnacht, the night of broken glass which began the Holocaust.

There is much more (and much more obscene); google “Martin Luther Jews” and you’ll get many examples.

 

[mercygate]

This may be why Calvinator’s a bit nervous on this subject:

This was a major inspiration for Kristallnacht, the night of broken glass which began the Holocaust.

There is much more (and much more obscene); google “Martin Luther Jews” and you’ll get many examples.

Tef – what is your goal here?

 

[Teflon93]

Tef – what is your goal here?

I was responding to Calvinator’s point on Chrysostom. Originally I was suggesting that beyond the confines of the Inquisition period there might be fruitful discussion of other periods as well.

One of my best friends is an Orthodox Jew (and a law professor) so we discuss this pretty frequently. Luther and Chrysostom are clearly outside of the OP’s focus on the Inquisition period, however.

For the period of the Inquisition specifically, I like this book:

amazon.com/Spanish-Inquisition-Historical-Revision/dp/0300078803/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/102-6122889-6052935?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184765875&sr=8-2

 

[mercygate]

I was responding to Calvinator’s point on Chrysostom. Originally I was suggesting that beyond the confines of the Inquisition period there might be fruitful discussion of other periods as well.

One of my best friends is an Orthodox Jew (and a law professor) so we discuss this pretty frequently. Luther and Chrysostom are clearly outside of the OP’s focus on the Inquisition period, however.

For the period of the Inquisition specifically, I like this book:

amazon.com/Spanish-Inquisition-Historical-Revision/dp/0300078803/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/102-6122889-6052935?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184765875&sr=8-2

Nice link. I’m guessing Kaman used the newly-opened Inquisition files. We sure need some counter to the “Black Legend.”

Now back to the original topic.

 

[Calvinator]

I ignore nothing of the sort. You certainly do seem to be nervous about anybody reading Luther’s diatribe against the Jews, however. Might it be because the Great Reformer’s track record is horrible?

If you want me to read something about Jewish opinion on Catholic abuses, it certainly would help to post links.

Unless of course you merely seek to deflect from the excesses of your own faith.

Given that the Supreme Pontiff has seen fit to apologize for the Church’s past treatment of the Jews, I don’t see how you could presume any Catholic to be somehow ignorant of it.

The reason I presumed you to be ignorant of any ill doing by catholics is that I don’t remember you ever admitting it.

As I stated in an earlier post, I don’t condone Luther’s anti-semitism or make any attempt to defend it.

As far as links to Jewish opinion, start with the ones already posted.

 

[Teflon93]

The reason I presumed you to be ignorant of any ill doing by catholics is that I don’t remember you ever admitting it.

As I stated in an earlier post, I don’t condone Luther’s anti-semitism or make any attempt to defend it.

It is quite off-topic but suffice it to say you are free to search my posts and you will find plenty of places where I admit to wrongdoing by Catholics.

I did join the Church post-sexual abuse scandal, you know. It is impossible for one to be ignorant of the failures of Catholics given the constant attacks upon the Faith and the Faithful.

The treatment of Jews by Catholics past, to keep us on point (thanks for the nudge, Mercygate—a great example of how we do correct one another), is in many cases regrettable and marked by a lack of charity. Neither should it be magnified or overstated, however, as anti-Catholics are wont to do.

Thus the reason I linked to the book I did. The Inquisition has been blown up to something akin to the Reign of Terror during the French Revolution. It was nothing of the sort, and countering anti-Catholic mythology is important.