Insight from My Jw, Ex-Catholic Sister

[mumto5]

Jaded27:

Where did this come from?
B made an example of a homeless person and giving the change. I made an example that fits my beliefs. Are you going to tell me Catholics don’t believe their religion is right? That’s all I was demonstrating. Was that what if going door to door is correct and we are helping people but they don’t know it? It’s the same example. I’m a bit offended by this. I don’t think it was entirely justified.

It’s not entirely charitable going door to door as you know that you are taught that by so doing, you save yourself as well. There’s no freedom of choice for you - it’s a requirement.

As for charities, JWs will help their own. Jesus helped everyone and encouraged helping even of the ‘unclean’. (See The Parable of the Good Samaritan). Catholic charities reach out into the community. At least the Mormons offer to help in practical ways even after they’ve accepted that we are not interested.

The JW ‘love’ is very contrived - it’s conditional. At least God’s love is unconditional.

 

[Jaded27]

mumto5:

The JW ‘love’ is very contrived - it’s conditional. At least God’s love is unconditional.

If that’s the way you see it, I’m sorry for you. I do charity work at least one weekend a month. This coming weekend I’ll be doing it all day saturday at one event and for a couple hours on sunday for a different event.
And as for JWs in general - they will gladly give money to charities. I’ve seen it myself many times. So please don’t say things that simply are not true. If that’s the impression you’ve gotten from a few JWs then that is simply not how it is anymore.

 

[mumto5]

Jaded27:

If that’s the way you see it, I’m sorry for you. I do charity work at least one weekend a month. This coming weekend I’ll be doing it all day saturday at one event and for a couple hours on sunday for a different event.
And as for JWs in general - they will gladly give money to charities. I’ve seen it myself many times. So please don’t say things that simply are not true. If that’s the impression you’ve gotten from a few JWs then that is simply not how it is anymore.

I’m not even talking about charities. If we make a mistake, God does not turn his back on us. He forgives and loves us and welcomes us back. Quite a contrast to what can happen to JW sinners. I went along to the JW Hall when I was 14-16 and saw this happen. There was a couple who made ONE mistake when they were engaged and they were thrown out. Never mind being there to help them and strengthen them against making this mistake again. At the behest of the elders and a public announcement, no-one spoke to them even though they attended every meeting. Yeah…real ‘unconditional’ love of brother there. OTOH, someone who commited a similar sin and bragged about it - and did it twice - was not shunned. Seems a godless model to me.

 

[Jaded27]

mumto5:

I’m not even talking about charities. If we make a mistake, God does not turn his back on us. He forgives and loves us and welcomes us back. Quite a contrast to what can happen to JW sinners. I went along to the JW Hall when I was 14-16 and saw this happen. There was a couple who made ONE mistake when they were engaged and they were thrown out. Never mind being there to help them and strengthen them against making this mistake again. At the behest of the elders and a public announcement, no-one spoke to them even though they attended every meeting. Yeah…real ‘unconditional’ love of brother there. OTOH, someone who commited a similar sin and bragged about it - and did it twice - was not shunned. Seems a godless model to me.

Well, that second part should not have happened.

Disfellowshipping may seem harsh to those who are not Witnesses, but it is a kindness shown not only to the sinner but to the congregation. As the bible itself says “Bad association spoils useful habits.” Would you want someone who does drugs trying to convince others in the congregation that it’s okay to do so?
HOw about sex before marriage? Catholics do not agree with that either yet nothing happens to you if you mess up. There should be some kind of system to make people aware that stuff like this is not okay. By just letting it go you are telling the rest of the congregation that it is okay.
Obviously you and others are going to argue this. No one really gets it who’s not a Witness. And maybe there’s a slightly less harsh way to do it, but just letting people get away with all sorts of BIG sins is not the way to handle it either. So I’ve said my piece.

 

[MrS]

Jaded27:

Well, that second part should not have happened.

Disfellowshipping may seem harsh to those who are not Witnesses, but it is a kindness shown not only to the sinner but to the congregation. As the bible itself says “Bad association spoils useful habits.” Would you want someone who does drugs trying to convince others in the congregation that it’s okay to do so?
HOw about sex before marriage? Catholics do not agree with that either yet nothing happens to you if you mess up. There should be some kind of system to make people aware that stuff like this is not okay. By just letting it go you are telling the rest of the congregation that it is okay.
Obviously you and others are going to argue this. No one really gets it who’s not a Witness. And maybe there’s a slightly less harsh way to do it, but just letting people get away with all sorts of BIG sins is not the way to handle it either. So I’ve said my piece.

I just looked at your profile…

So why do you live with your boyfriend?

Catholics have a “system” that has always declared this to be wrong, sinful, and another reason why so many marriages fail - living together removes the respect which the sacrament of marriage deserves.

Do those in your Kingdom Hall approve of your lifestyle?

 

[Jaded27]

MrS:

I just looked at your profile…

So why do you live with your boyfriend?

Catholics have a “system” that has always declared this to be wrong, sinful, and another reason why so many marriages fail - living together removes the respect which the sacrament of marriage deserves.

Do those in your Kingdom Hall approve of your lifestyle?

First of all, we are not discussing me. If we were I would tell you that living together and having sex are two VERY different things.

And I haven’t seen the church punish my fiancee for it in any way. He went to confession and that was it. If you’re a JW you get in more trouble than that.

We are discussing JWs and disfellowshipping on a general basis. This is not about me and I don’t really feel obligated to share any more than that. Don’t take that the wrong way. I just feel it has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

[mumto5]

Jaded27:

First of all, we are not discussing me. If we were I would tell you that living together and having sex are two VERY different things.

.

the congregation I attended would have disfellowshipped you for that (well, unless it was adultery it seems from experience).

If someone makes a mistake and has sex with someone they can repent. And there are eternal consequences. The church can sanction someone who lives a life of sin by refusing a public sinner communion. But the chance to repent is there first. With the JWs there is not always that chance. You can be sorry and still get disfellowshipped. It is not practiced in a consistent or fair way. I understand it completely and didn’t see any mercy in it. God, at least, is merciful.

(I’m heading overseas for a couple of weeks so won’t be able to read any reply).

 

[Jaded27]

mumto5:

the congregation I attended would have disfellowshipped you for that (well, unless it was adultery it seems from experience).

I’m not talking about to a JW. I’m talking about with catholics.

mumto5:

If someone makes a mistake and has sex with someone they can repent. And there are eternal consequences. The church can sanction someone who lives a life of sin by refusing a public sinner communion. But the chance to repent is there first. With the JWs there is not always that chance. You can be sorry and still get disfellowshipped. It is not practiced in a consistent or fair way. I understand it completely and didn’t see any mercy in it. God, at least, is merciful.

Well, that’s the way you see it. Ah well. If you’re sorry you’re not likely to get DFd. They give you PLENTY of chances. If not, well, that’s the elder’s personal problem and they shouldn’t run things like that. Usually you’d get reproved first and THEN DFd.

(I’m heading overseas for a couple of weeks so won’t be able to read any reply).

That’s okay. I’ll answer anyway.

 

[mumto5]

Jaded27:

I’m not talking about to a JW. I’m talking about with catholics.

Well, that’s the way you see it. Ah well. If you’re sorry you’re not likely to get DFd. They give you PLENTY of chances. If not, well, that’s the elder’s personal problem and they shouldn’t run things like that. Usually you’d get reproved first and THEN DFd.

This would be the ideal way it worked. Unfortunately, in practice it didn’t work that way in at least one congregation.

Jaded27:

That’s okay. I’ll answer anyway.

Just didn’t want you thinking I was ignoring you if you responded Not leaving for another two hours and figured the thread would drop off by the time I get back.

 

[Jaypeeto3]

Just to make something clear from my OWN experience, since Jaded asserts that JWs who sin are given “plenty of chances” to repent before they are disfellowshiped.
I was suffering from severe clinical depression when I fell into sin.
I went to the elders and confessed. They knew that I was seriously ill, too. Lacking strong faith because of my illness, I fell into the sin AGAIN. So I went to the “loving” Elders and confessed AGAIN. At which point, they “disfellowshiped” me, cutting me off from all contact with everyone but family members. I certainly did NOT get “plenty of chances,” and the Elders didn’t give a tinkers damn how ill I was or how much I was suffering from the clinical depression. So don’t hand me how loving the Society is, because it is NOT. And as for charities, I was taught, as was every Witness I knew, NOT to give money or time to charities.
Jaded, the fact that you DO spend time in charitable work says a lot about YOU personally. It tells me that you are a lot BETTER than the religion you hold to. Love, Jaypeeto3

 

[catsrus]

I know someone very well who was DF’d and his family members who were still in good standing with the wt were NOT allowed to speak to him or have anything to do with him at all. No family dinners together, nothing. This pained his mother desperately as she was a pioneer (full time jw preacher) and loved her son very much. The entire family was torn asunder.
The DF’ing infuriated the man so much that he has never gone back to a kh and that incident was almost 30 years ago. (so much for “loving reproval”) To this day his active jw family members (only 2 now) still do not speak with him.

 

[lisa2]

I wasn’t given plenty of chances either. I went to the elders and confessed I was very remoseful.
I was also depressed. I was df’d anyway. I was also told by the elder doing the talking …“Don’t even bother praying, because Jehovah won’t be listening to your prayers” I was cut off from family and friends. :nope:
I was very sucidal at that time. :crying:

I’m still out. My family still doesn’t speak to me. It has been 17 years.

lisa

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

This is sort of derailed. I’d like to de-personalize it.
Do JWs believe Jesus IS Lord. Do they believe in the Trinity? Do you believe in the Trinity. If not, wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that JWs are a new branch of Islam?

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

I do not mean to be uncharitable, but without Jesus our Catholic faith is vain. Without the infinite and perfect sacrifice of God to God our sins could not be wiped away. God paid our debt because of His love for us. No one less than God could accomplish such a reparation on the cross. God is love and the cross is His symbol.

If JWs deny Christ’s complete divinity, they deny salvation.

This is NOT a minor difference; it is an essential, irreconcilable difference! Please pray on this (I will too)

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

lisa2:

I wasn’t given plenty of chances either. I went to the elders and confessed I was very remoseful.
I was also depressed. I was df’d anyway. I was also told by the elder doing the talking …“Don’t even bother praying, because Jehovah won’t be listening to your prayers” I was cut off from family and friends. :nope:
I was very sucidal at that time. :crying:

I’m still out. My family still doesn’t speak to me. It has been 17 years.

lisa

You probably know this, but no prayer is wasted. God may not grant all prayers for our own good, but he hears them. Ask His mother for solace and to deliver your prayers to her Son.

God love you.

michael

 

[RCCDefender]

lisa2:

I wasn’t given plenty of chances either. I went to the elders and confessed I was very remoseful.
I was also depressed. I was df’d anyway. I was also told by the elder doing the talking …“Don’t even bother praying, because Jehovah won’t be listening to your prayers” I was cut off from family and friends. :nope:
I was very sucidal at that time. :crying:

I’m still out. My family still doesn’t speak to me. It has been 17 years.

lisa

Lisa,
I am so sorry for your ordeal, and I want to welcome you to these forums. God WILL listen to your prayers! Keep praying for insight on where He wants you to go! I will help you in any way I can pertaining to the Faith. Feel free to ask any of us questions about the Catholic faith. I am guessing that you came here because you are curious about Catholics. We would love to help you! You can also ask an apologist and feel free to PM or email me!