Inspiration/revelation + Bible

[GandalfTheWhite]

= INSPIRATION: a. a divine influence directly and immediately exerted upon the mind or soul. b. the divine quality of the writings or words of a person so influenced.
= A person that ultimately and fully believes in God, believes that God can do ANYTHING. Again I say: It’s faith. Me and you can discuss for centuries whether or not the Bible is FULLY Divinely inspired and without faith you can never come to understand. You can read for 1,000 years and more on God, but without faith you will end up nowhere and die without Him. With those people who HALF-HEARTEDLY or partially believe the Bible, their thinking and knowledge of God is DEFILED and SPOTTED WITH SIN. For NO man can serve two masters. One cannot believe in God half-way, and the other half believe in themselves OR some other book. Man can make a god out of anything…even make a god from ‘manuscipts’ supposedly given by “Peter” or such and such church. EVEN 5 years after Jesus descended back to Heaven, there were STILL “christian” churches who did not believe that Jesus once and for all gave away with priests and sacrifices and the like. ONLY CHRIST Himself and NONE OTHER…NONE OTHER…is a High Priest or can claim to be a priest/pope, who can FORGIVE SIN. How much more clean can i get??

= Some reasons why the Bible is Divinely Inspired:

= Chapter 1. There is a Presumption in Favor of the Bible 2. The Perennial Freshness of the Bible Bears Witness to its Divine Inspirer 3. The Unmistakable honesty of the Writers of the Bible Attests to its Heavenly Origin 4. The Character of its Teachings Evidences the Divine Authorship of the Bible 5. The Fulfilled Prophecies of the Bible Bespeak the Omniscience of its Author 6. The Typical Significance of the Scriptures Declare Their Divine Authorship 7. The Wonderful Unity of the Bible Attests Divine Authorship 8. The marvelous Influence of the Bible declares its Super-Human Character 9. The Miraculous Power of the Bible Shows Forth that its Inspirer is the Almighty 10. The Completeness of the Bible Demonstrates its Divine Perfection 11. The Indestructibility of the Bible is a Proof that its Author is Divine 12. Inward Confirmation of the Veracity of the Scriptures.

= Please read what I have to say…

============================================
= Not only does the Bible claim to be a Divine revelation but it also asserts that its original manuscripts were written “not in the words which man’s wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches” (1 Cor. 2:13). The Bible nowhere claims to have been written by inspired men—as a matter of fact some of them were very defective characters—Balaam for example—but it insists that the words they uttered and recorded were God’s words. Inspiration has nothing to do with the minds of the writers (for many of them understood not what they wrote (1 Pet. 1:10-11), but with the writings themselves. “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God,” and “Scripture” means “the writings.” 2 Timothy 3:16 “All Scripture is God-breathed…” Faith has to do with God’s Word and not with the men who wrote it—these are all dead long since, but their writings remain.

(to be continued)

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

A writing that is inspired by God self-evidently implies, in the very expression, that the words are the words of God. To say that the inspiration of the Scriptures applies to their concepts and not to their words; to declare that one part of Scripture is written with one kind or degree of inspiration and another part with another kind or degree, is not only destitute of any foundation or support in the Scriptures themselves, but is repudiated by every statement in the Bible which bears upon the subject now under consideration. To say that the Bible is not the Word of God but merely contains the Word of God is the figment of an ill-employed ingenuity and an UNHOLY attempt to depreciate and invalidate the supreme authority of the Oracles of God. All the attempts which have been made to explain the rationale of inspiration have done nothing toward simplifying the subject, rather have they tended to mystify. It is no easier to conceive how ideas without words could be imparted, than that Divinely revealed truths should be communicated by words. Instead of being diminished the difficulty is increased. It were as logical to talk of a sum without figures or a tune without notes, as of a Divine revelation and communication without words.

**Instead of speculation our duty is to receive and believe what the Scriptures say of themselves.

What the Bible teaches about its own inspiration is a matter purely of Divine testimony, and our business is simply to receive the testimony and not to speculate about or seek to pry into its ‘modus operandi.’

===== Inspiration is as much a matter of Divine revelation as is justification by faith. Both stand equally on the authority of the Scriptures themselves, which must be the final court of appeal on this subject as on every question of revealed truth.

The teaching of the Bible concerning the inspiration of the Scriptures is clear and simple, and uniform throughout. Its writers were conscious that their utterances were a message from God in the highest meaning of the word.

====="11 The LORD said to him, “Who gave man his mouth? Who makes him deaf or mute? Who gives him sight or makes him blind? Is it not I, the LORD ? 12 Now go; I will help you speak and will teach you what to say.”(Exod. 4:11-12). “The Spirit of the LORD spoke through me; His Word was on my tongue.(2 Sam. 23:2). “Then the Lord put forth His Hand, and touched my mouth, and the Lord said to me,” Behold, I have put My words in your mouth” (Jer. 1:9). The above are only a sample of scores of similar passages which might be sighted.

This was said by a protestant and I’m not really sure how to respond to that. Thank you for your help.

 

[Pax]

*The arguments for the inspiration of scripture are seemingly Okay. The problems I have are as follows:

He needs to prove the following erroneous statement:*

“EVEN 5 years after Jesus descended back to Heaven, there were STILL “christian” churches who did not believe that Jesus once and for all gave away with priests and sacrifices and the like.”

*Jesus did not do away with the ministerial priesthood and scripture is quite clear about this. If you need something on this I can provide it to you.

–Jesus gave the authority to forgive sin to the apostles…the following is simply another erroneous statement without any foundation or proof.*

“ONLY CHRIST Himself and NONE OTHER…NONE OTHER…is a High Priest or can claim to be a priest/pope, who can FORGIVE SIN. How much more clean can i get??”

If you need an argument for Jesus giving the power to forgive sin to men then I can provide that to you as well.

–The scriptures themselves are the final court of appeal? Who is to interpret the scriptures authoritatively? The following is also erroneous.

“Inspiration is as much a matter of Divine revelation as is justification by faith. Both stand equally on the authority of the Scriptures themselves, which must be the final court of appeal on this subject as on every question of revealed truth.”

 

[Bishopite]

This was said by a protestant and I’m not really sure how to respond to that. Thank you for your help.

Not only does the Bible claim to be a Divine revelation but it also asserts that its original manuscripts were written “not in the words which man’s wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches” (1 Cor. 2:13). The Bible nowhere claims to have been written by inspired men—

Sure God is the author of Scripture but not just because Scripture says so. The Koran and the book of Mormon say they are inspired too, but that doesn’t make them so.

“Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours. 2 Thes 2:15”

This is St. Paul writing about what he and the other Apostles wrote, spoke and taught. Scripture has a dual authorship, God is the primary author but the hands were those inspired by the Holy Spirit writing what God wanted them to write, even though they did so with their intellect and will.
And this still doesn’t answer how he knows Scripture is inspired.

as a matter of fact some of them were very defective characters—Balaam for example—but it insists that the words they uttered and recorded were God’s words. Inspiration has nothing to do with the minds of the writers (for many of them understood not what they wrote (1 Pet. 1:10-11), but with the writings themselves.
“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God,” and “Scripture” means “the writings.” 2 Timothy 3:16 “All Scripture is God-breathed…” Faith has to do with God’s Word and not with the men who wrote it—these are all dead long since, but their writings remain.

Their writings remain and so does their oral Tradition. This statement in NO WAY gives us a specific criteria for knowing if a book is inspired or not. To many Protestant theologians use generalities in attempting to a “criteria” for a book being in the canon. They circle the (Church) wagon without acknowledging its presence in salvific history. What specific criteria was used in determining the canonicity of a book? Some Protestants say it had to be penned by or attributed to an Apostle, Martin Luther said is has to “ring” of Christ but that posses a problem, since no one knows who wrote the book of Hebrews and the book of Ester doesn’t even mention the word God.

What the Bible teaches about its own inspiration is a matter purely of Divine testimony, and our business is simply to receive the testimony and not to speculate about or seek to pry into its ‘modus operandi.’

I disagree and this is a strike at the Catholic Church in a round-about way. The mode of operation of how we authoritatively know a book is inspired is very important. It is the Catholic Church who recognized the canon. And since the very Scriptures we read and history itself affirms that there was and is an authoritative Church established to guide us and ward off the heresies, we look to that as evidence and rational reason why we can trust the Catholic Church to tell us what is and isn’t inspired Scripture.
His argument is the bible says it’s inspired therefore it is. Ours is the bible says it established an authoritative Church, which history attests therefore it’s a more plausible and reasonable arguement.

===== Inspiration is as much a matter of Divine revelation as is justification by faith. Both stand equally on the authority of the Scriptures themselves, which must be the final court of appeal on this subject as on every question of revealed truth.

He needs to read 1 Tim 3:15"But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth."
The Church is the conveyor of truth and the proper interpreter of them.

The teaching of the Bible concerning the inspiration of the Scriptures is clear and simple, and uniform throughout. Its writers were conscious that their utterances were a message from God in the highest meaning of the word.

====="11 The LORD said to him, “Who gave man his mouth? Who makes him deaf or mute? Who gives him sight or makes him blind? Is it not I, the LORD ? 12 Now go; I will help you speak and will teach you what to say.”(Exod. 4:11-12). “The Spirit of the LORD spoke through me; His Word was on my tongue.(2 Sam. 23:2). “Then the Lord put forth His Hand, and touched my mouth, and the Lord said to me,” Behold, I have put My words in your mouth” (Jer. 1:9). The above are only a sample of scores of similar passages which might be sighted.

What does he mean by “the highest meaning of the word?”
This is the bible says it’s inspired therefore we believe it argument.

 

[Bishopite]

(to be continued)

You can read for 1,000 years and more on God, but without faith you will end up nowhere and die without Him. With those people who HALF-HEARTEDLY or partially believe the Bible, their thinking and knowledge of God is DEFILED and SPOTTED WITH SIN.

Ask him to give you some specifics on what he means by
“HALF-HEARTEDLY” or “partially blieve the Bible?”
Ask him to give you some examples what he means by “spotted with sin?” Perhaps contraception would also qualify?

For NO man can serve two masters. One cannot believe in God half-way, and the other half believe in themselves OR some other book. Man can make a god out of anything…even make a god from ‘manuscipts’ supposedly given by “Peter” or such and such church.

He speaks in ambiguities within defining what he means. Jesus DID establish a Church…one Church, Mt 16:15-19, 18:15-18 and it WAS the Catholic Church who recognized the inspired books, like it or not!

= Chapter 1. There is a Presumption in Favor of the Bible 2. The Perennial Freshness of the Bible Bears Witness to its Divine Inspirer 3. The Unmistakable honesty of the Writers of the Bible Attests to its Heavenly Origin 4. The Character of its Teachings Evidences the Divine Authorship of the Bible

All of these could be said of the Koran or book of Mormon. It’s the bible is inspired because it says so argument and is circular and mute.

**Catholics us more of a spiral and rational argument…
**The bible is an historically acurate book.
**Christ is a historical person who not only claimed to be God but the evidence shows He was.
**Jesus established an athoritative Church with successors who proclaim His truth.
**That Church tells us what books are inspired and what isn’t…

1. The Fulfilled Prophecies of the Bible Bespeak the Omniscience of its Author 6. The Typical Significance of the Scriptures Declare Their Divine Authorship 7. The Wonderful Unity of the Bible Attests Divine Authorship 8. The marvelous Influence of the Bible declares its Super-Human Character 9. The Miraculous Power of the Bible Shows Forth that its Inspirer is the Almighty 10. The Completeness of the Bible Demonstrates its Divine Perfection 11. The Indestructibility of the Bible is a Proof that its Author is Divine 12. Inward Confirmation of the Veracity of the Scriptures

.

Again, these could be argued about the Koran and book of Mormon. Just because a book says it is historical, accurate, of divine origin and authorship doesn’t necessarily mean it is from God. He is correct that the bible’s historical accuracy and fulfilled prophecies over thousands of years give great evidence to its divine origin unlike other books that are “johnny come lately” books i.e. the Koran and book of Mormon but what he doesn’t answer is what specific criteria was used in order to authoritatively recognize those inspired books? It’s Tradition that was the criteria and God allowed the Catholic Church to authoratively recognize what books were and were not inspired. The first citation of all the books in the canon was in 382 AD by Pope Damasus at the council of Rome…
home.inreach.com/bstanley/canon.htm

He needs to give the “CRITERIA” for what makes a book inspired. Who wrote Hebrews? No one knows, so how did it get into the canon?

 

[Tomster]

Fact of Inspiration

Texts: Galations 1:11-12; Titus 2:13; Exodus 34:27

Inspiration is not demonstrable from internal evidence. That amid the mass of the world’s literature of all times and places certain books should have God as their primary author cannot be demonstrated conclusively from such writings themselves, although their unmatched beauty of diction, sublime moral character, and antiquity might lead men to surmise from such volumes some extraordinary origin, and to treasure their teaching of religion and morality beyond that of all others. The reason is that acts of God in the supernatural plane proceeding from the free will (not from the necessity of essence) of the Divinity, having consequently no necessary connection with the natural order, cannot become known of themselves to the human intellect, whose unaided powers do not transcend the natural order. Now inspiration (the act whereby God freely becomes the author of certain writings) is precisely such an act of the Divinity in the supernatural plane, having no necessary causal connection linking it with the natural order. Hence, the inspiration or Divine authorship of any book is not definitely demonstrable from internal evidence of the writings themselves. Like other free acts of the supernatural order (i.e., the Incarnation or justification) it can become known and be demonstrated for certain only by external evidence, that is: by revelation from God declaring His authorship of such writings.

Now, the Church being the only supernatural organization upon earth, custodian, therefore, of the deposit of revelation, and, as the Mystical Body of Christ, the authoritative agency of communication between God and men in supernatural matters, it is from her official declarations that the fact of the inspiration, or Divine authorship, of the Sacred Scriptures can be established.